Online Badges

[CAPEMT]

paramedicmike wrote:

So this statement means you'll get to play police officer with no formal law enforcement training? Then I'd say yes. It will make you less of an officer. It'll make you more of a danger to the public at large, too. Please tell me they're not going to let you carry a gun!

Where do you live again? I'm NEVER going to visit!

As a reserve deputy in the county which I live, you have to undergo 750 hours of field training, plus another 100 hours in correctional training, before you are allowed to carry a firearm on duty. You start out carrying the following: Taser X-26, Pepper Spray, 2 sets of cuffs, vhf portable radio, nextel, asp retractable baton. And even after your training, you ride with another accredited officer during your shift. Once you have been in there 6 months (not counting your field and correctional training), you are eligible for the county to help you with tuition to the local police academy to become accredited. After the academy, you are eligible to apply for a paid position with the department. One of the biggest reasons that I am undergoing joining the reserve is to be a tactical EMT for the local SRT, which I was asked to do.But back to the root of the matter, the county isn't just going to give me a badge and a gun (which, by the way, I have to purchase all of my uniforms and equipment, to include my sidearm) and put me out on the street. And to boot, as a reserve deputy, I am not paid or compensated for my time. I save the county money, and I learn my job.

I would not be suprised if near where you live you have a police "auxillary" or sheriff's "reserve". Did you know in most states, to include NY, WA, TN, AL, GA, and several others that if you are real good buddy buddy with your local sheriff and can past a psychological eval and a background check that the sheriff can swear you in and give you a job, WITHOUT sending you into formal training? Just a thought.

[Ridryder 911]

Your right that is scary that law enforcement is just as screwed up as EMS. I agree, with Mike, one should have formal training in the profession they do, way before they place the uniform on and have duties of such.... paid or volunteer. Usually, assailants don't ask which is reserve and which has been through formal academy, but the courts do as a representative of it.

I have worked in a large Police EMS system, a Tactical Medic on the State Narcotic Assault Team, and even as Reservist for our County S.O. to maintain my commission, so yes, I am familiar there are some places, that will use anything with a pulse and a ego to wear a badge. This is what is so scary, when I see ones wearing garb and looking like a Gall's magazine.

What concerns me as well, if the paid officer really needs assistance such as officer down... (usually the reason for reservist, except to direct traffic) would you not want one able to use the full force? As well, what does working in an prison, or penitentiary have to do with patrol and LEO, and investigational duties? Most officers, I know never have ever worked in prison systems, other than to process them.

Well, I guess in Rome, one has to do as Romans do.. just wish the best of success and safety to you

R/r 911.

[paramedicmike]

just wish the best of success and safety to you

With the emphasis on safety...to you and the real cops who (God help them) have to rely on untrained auxiliary cops to back them up.

-be safe.

[CAPEMT]

Paramedicmike, you don't seem to get the auxillary thing...we ride with another officer, and most of the auxillary officers have been through the academy, or came out of the military as MPs, or have been in there since moses came down with the commandements. What about clinical rotations on the ambulance during our EMT (or Medic) school? If we got a severe case the Medic on that truck is going to rely on an "untrained" student to assist. I can't speak for everybody, but I hope rid will agree with me that S.O. Auxillaries are very professional organizations, and are good opportunities to get your foot in the door in L.E....P.S. Mike, I do have my C.J. Degree, so I do have a little bit of formal training.

[paramedicmike]

Unfortunately, I get the whole auxiliary thing all too well. But it's interesting what you've posted.

If they've been through the academy, why aren't they paid LEOs?

If they're out of the military, why, especially with their veteran's preference, aren't they paid LEOs?

If they're older than dirt, why are they still involved unless it's in an administrative capacity? You do reach an age where you lose your effectiveness.

So, basically, what I hear you saying is that as a volunteer auxiliary police officer you're taking away a paid job from someone who comes to the stage properly trained. You said it yourself:

I save the county money

Are you comfortable living in a community that puts your safety, the safety of your family, friends and loved ones in the hands of untrained volunteers just so the municipality can save a few bucks?

But back to the topic at hand (as Admin seems to have given a warning), training or whatever aside, working in the capacity of a LEO would certainly provide the need for that individual to wear a badge. Anything else, however, negates that need. EMS has no authority to do anything. Therefore, we don't need a badge to imply that we're something we're not.

Given your need to get the last word in, I'll leave it at that. But I won't get dragged any further into a discussion where one side keeps changing the topic.

Dust said at one point, "Pick one thing and one thing only. Do that one thing well." I think it's an appropriate point to make.

Don't get dead.

-be safe.

[Asysin2leads]

Just to weigh in here on an arguement. Someone mentioned that firefighters aren't law enforcement either but have badges. Actually, in most places with professional firefighting services, firefighters, and in particular fire officers, do have legitimate enforcement powers, such as in evacuating a building or closing one down if it is a hazard, or other things.

Yes, it sucks, but a fire chief can really tell people what to do while EMS still has to ask nice. You know, in the medical/legal portion of class, the fact that EMS has no more authority than that of your average citizen is pretty clearly spelled out. Also, for all you auxillary/deputy/not-really-a-cop-but-boy-I-wannabe-one/EMT's/etc/etc/etc's, you had better be pretty clear as to what function you are acting as when you are on a call, because if you can't decide, a slimy defense attorney will. Just a caveat.

[volntrEMT]

The cops involved in the arrest of the CPVAC member quote some law stating that a badge with either a municipality, county or state emblem that is not issued by that municipality, county or the state of NY, is illegal. There is question, instead of such emblem, that a Star of Life be used instead, but no conclusion was reached.

I also read the above quote elsewhere online. Well, if thats the case, the police should be arresting all EMT's for wearing the state patch which has the same state seal on it and is worn as part of the uniform of MANY EMS agencies throught the state!

See my member image to the left of this post!!

[Michael]

if thats the case, the police should be arresting all EMT's for wearing the state patch

Say, if powers of arrest come with the patch, we could save the state even more money...

[fire911medic]

I know you can obtain badges via Galls online, but other than that I don't know as that is who our dept deals with for almost everything medical. We deal with another company for our fire needs. However, silver is only appropriate as gold is typically reserved for officers. Your dept may be different, but that is most places.

Personally, I've had bad experiences with badges and patches (look too cop like and had more than one person very unhappy and taking swings thinking I was a cop) and was more than happy to see our department trash them for every day wear. Most services around here have gone to the polo shirts which I love. They always look good, and are easy to maintain. They wear quite nicely. Very practical.

For special things such as parades, going to schools to speak, etc which don't require class A's, but still need to look dressier we use class B's with the badge and patches, but that is the only time. I think that should be general rule across the board, but that's just my personal opinion for all it's worth.

However, one thing that disturbs me is that anyone can obtain things saying EMT, Paramedic, etc. I know at Galls (again I only know there as it is who we deal with for uniforms and medical stuff) anyone can walk in and buy stuff saying that. Have had several issues with people either claiming they were a higher level than they were or flat out buying things saying they were in emergency services when they weren't at all ! Scary thought, but true (I even had my car broken into and shirt stolen once when we still wore the blues ! Didn't like explaining that one ! ) With S.O. or PD though you have to prove affiliation or be registered with them to purchase anything with those decals on it. Does this bother anybody else?

Just be smart and stay safe out there !

[NREMT-Basic]

I cant believe that this whole badge patch argument is still raging. How about this. Wear or carry or pin to your shirt whatever your department or agency issues and leave it at that. If you need a piece of tin to validate what you do, become a rent a cop. When he retired, my father wore the gold shied of a Sheriffs Detective in our county. Why? Because for 36 years he remained true to his oath to uphold the laws of our state. He went through the Academy, spent 9 years as a patrolman and the rest of his career as a Detective, retiring as Detective 1st Grade. If you feel the compulsion to carry a badge and have it entitle you to actually carry out specific functions, I suggest you do what he did. If you need a badge to feel important, wear the badge of honor that everyday that you go to work in the EMS field, you are saving or helping to save lives. Use this as your litmus test: when you are working on a criticial patient, do they stop to ask to see your badge? No? Then why bother? Let your badge be the fact that when you step out of that truck, you are doing something that very few people would want to do. Even one better: give yourself a badge for every one of your patients that lives.