Online Badges

[1aCe3]

which is exactly what I am asking. What extra roles are we being given when designated as a public safety officer? I was certainly not trained to do anything more than a EMT entails. But they continue to give us a label. I certainly don't mind that we have extra protection when it comes to being assaulted, but what more does it entail? Perhaps there IS none.

[Dustdevil]

Mail men are given extra protections too, so don't let the courtesy that the legislature has extended to you go to your head. It just means they value your service enough to help protect you with legalities. That law didn't say anything about having "authority" or going to Guido's Wanker Supply in Manhattan and buying a badge.

[n5iln]

Mail men are given extra protections too, so don't let the courtesy that the legislature has extended to you go to your head. It just means they value your service enough to help protect you with legalities. That law didn't say anything about having "authority" or going to Guido's Wanker Supply in Manhattan and buying a badge.

Exactly so. Mailmen are Federal agents, but that doesn't mean they get to carry sidearms (other than dog-repellent sprays). Likewise, the public may view EMTs and paramedics as public-safety officials, and the laws of some states provide for punishment of those who assault us or interfere with us in the performance of our duties, but those laws only kick in after the fact...and if we're not vigilant, after the funeral. Me, I'd rather not give anyone any sort of reason, rational or otherwise, to want to ventilate me. So I keep an eye on what's going on around me, listen to my gut, and be ready to execute my personal RLH plan. And not wear any sort of badge (except the ID card that the state says I have to wear at all times while on duty...and it looks absolutely nothing like a shield).

[1aCe3]

haha, you're a funny guy. But thanks for the input, no matter what, you still get the message across. If it's one thing I learned in EMS is to not take anything personally. So it seems the reasons for not having a shield outweighs the reasons for having one. Maybe if we weren't allowed or weren't issued we wouldnt be having this problem. So why the HECK are they around EMS?! (I'm not arguing here, I'm merely wondering about the history of this.) Who get's to decide, and while we're on the topic why do firefighters have them?

[n5iln]

So it seems the reasons for not having a shield outweighs the reasons for having one. Maybe if we weren't allowed or weren't issued we wouldnt be having this problem. So why the HECK are they around EMS?! (I'm not arguing here, I'm merely wondering about the history of this.) Who get's to decide, and while we're on the topic why do firefighters have them?

I'll go at this one backwards. FFs (in paid departments, anyway) have shields because they are public safety officials; they're hired by, trained by, employed by and paid by municipalities, with very few exceptions (Scottsdale, AZ being one that leaps to mind). Some EMS operations issue shields to their personnel as a holdover from when they were still part of the fire service; others are still part of the fire service, so they also hand out shields.

Just as a sidenote of curiosity, I still have my original shield from 18 years ago. I haven't worn it in 14 years, and I'll never wear it again. It's a neat memento, but like I said elsewhere, around here it's more of a target than it is anything else. And some gangbangers would love to collect this one, since it's not issued anywhere around here (yet another reason not to wear it, I don't work for the service that issued it any more, and that service no longer exists anyway!).

[Richard B the EMT]

I only checked back 2 pages, but, for the folks who feel we need badges for identification (and I admit to being one of them), the idiots who do as what is described in what follows ruin it for all of us, on both sides of the badge or no badge question. My source is from the New York State Volunteer Ambulance and Rescue Association, showing from the Associated Press, used without permission but acknowledging the source.

DA: College student impersonated federal agent

The Associated Press

August 30, 2006, 5:19 PM EDT

A college student has been charged with impersonating a federal agent after a routine traffic stop led police to a cache of weapons and forged law enforcement paraphernalia in his bedroom, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Stephan M. Kishore's masquerade came to an end after a Port Authority of New York and New Jersey police officer stopped his minivan Monday afternoon on an expressway near John F. Kennedy International Airport for changing lanes without signaling, prosecutors said.

The officer said he noticed a large police decal on a rear door of the minivan and red and blue strobe lights on the dashboard.

There also were two U.S. Department of Homeland Security parking placards on the dashboard, prosecutors said.

Kishore, of the Bronx, then showed the officer a phony Homeland Security ID card and shield, prosecutors said. When asked if he was a police officer, Kishore replied, "Yes, and I'm on duty," they said.

However, the officer became suspicious when he read on the back of the shield: "CopShop.com, Collectible Badge, Not For Official Use."

CopShop, based in Umatilla, Fla., calls itself the online mall for cops, selling sheriff's office badges, state trooper patches, collectible pins and law enforcement apparel.

Kishore later admitted he was not a police officer and had made the ID card on his home computer, prosecutors said.

Kishore, 20, was arraigned Tuesday night in Queens Criminal Court on charges of criminal impersonation, forgery and criminal possession of a weapon, a forged instrument and forgery devices, District Attorney Richard Brown said.

"The victim's alleged conduct in this era of heightened security was both dangerous and reprehensible because it exploited the public's trust in the police and placed both his life and those of actual police officers in possible jeopardy," Brown said in a statement.

Kishore, a student at York College in Queens, was being held Wednesday on $50,000 bail. His next court date is Sept. 5. He could face up to seven years in prison if convicted.

His attorney, Georgia Rattray-Gray, did not immediately return a telephone message seeking comment Wednesday.

Kishore admitted he had templates to make insignia and credentials for numerous police agencies and had several federal and local police ID cards, two stun guns, two pellet guns and two starter pistols in his bedroom, prosecutors said.

Police said they recovered the guns, a laptop computer, a laminator and blank ID cards during the execution of a search warrant at his home.

They also said they found 32 federal police ID cards, including ones for the U.S. Marshals Service, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the FBI and U.S. Customs and Border Protection, and shields for city departments including police and correction.

Kishore, who is from Trinidad, also is charged with changing the expiration date of his temporary visitor's status on his driver's license from August 2005 to 2006 with a red pen and with violating the city's Administrative Code relating to firearms, using police uniforms or emblems and placing state seals and insignia on private vehicles.

[NREMT-Basic]

Dust-

While I agree with much of what you have to say, your way of saying it is so often so completely offputting that it is difficult to wade through your insulting nonsense to get the valuable pith of what you have to say. Perhaps if you try to tone down the ego and use your experience to offer advice rather than scold and degrade it would be much more well accepted.

1. Municipalities do require badges on uniforms in most areas...often this is because the medic or emt is also an ff and is hence an officer.

2. A badge carried in a wallet by a private agency emt or medic can be valuable whether that emt or medic is in uniform or not. In IL, emts have the authority to clear crowds from an area, to remove media from covering an accident scene or violent crime scene and a badge, while perhaps in some hands is a mark of ego, can be very helpful in doing this.

3. At the risk of being bashed in the usual way by Dust, I will admit that I carry a badge in my wallet which identifies me as an Illinois EMT. I have used it to identify myself along with my license wallet card when I have stopped to assist at an accident scene and I think that this is a most useful reason to have a badge.

Dust, if you believe that symbols, badges, brass, etc are only ego trips from fngs, then why do you display yourself in full uniform in all of your postings. Is it ego, or is it to clearly identify yourself as what you are. You are also a nurse if I understand correctly, and nurses where no such insignia proving their rank. If you are in the military, of course this is necessary, but it seems that that photo of you sends you on the very same ego trip that you claim fng, emts and medics are on. Lose the double standard and the ego and perhaps your mind will open and you will have the experience of learning from those of us who perhaps have less experience, yes in some areas, but also more and different in others that you could learn from.

[NREMT-Basic]

In Illinois, EMTs of all levels are required to carry their license cards. This is nothing less than a form of official identification which is all that a badge is. One is paper, one is metal. Who cares. If you use it appopriately and for the right reasons, carry one. If you it is for your ego, leave it alone.

[JPINFV]

1. Municipalities do require badges on uniforms in most areas...often this is because the medic or emt is also an ff and is hence an officer.

When I look at a FF "officer" I see them as an officer in the sense of a military officer. He is the one in charge. Unlike a police officer, I'm not expecting a FF to arrest me.

2. A badge carried in a wallet by a private agency emt or medic can be valuable whether that emt or medic is in uniform or not. In IL, emts have the authority to clear crowds from an area, to remove media from covering an accident scene or violent crime scene and a badge, while perhaps in some hands is a mark of ego, can be very helpful in doing this.

Well, if you have a card, I would imagine that a card would be lighter and easier to carry then a badge. Also, more times then not you are not going to be questioned by the public if you act like you know what you're doing. If you are clearing a crowd and the people providing the care are not stopping you, then the public is going to assume that you are doing what you are supposed to be doing. Confidence is the key, not a badge.

3. At the risk of being bashed in the usual way by Dust, I will admit that I carry a badge in my wallet which identifies me as an Illinois EMT. I have used it to identify myself along with my license wallet card when I have stopped to assist at an accident scene and I think that this is a most useful reason to have a badge.

If you have a wallet card, do you think that people are going to change opinions because you also have a badge?

[NREMT-Basic]

While you make several valid points, this is really a useless argument. Some people carry badges and some dont, each has their own reason for doing so or not. It may be ego in some cases, or it may actually be that the individual has a valid "tactical" reason for carrying a badge. One that comes to mind is that I recently stopped to help at an auto accident...elderly women, 6 cm forhead lack, bleeding profusely. I said ma'am, I am an EMT and if you let me get my gear I can help you until the ambulance arrives. She said how do I know you are an EMT (actually she said EMT Guy) I showed her my ID card...she couldnt read it. I showed her my badge which has EMT-B/D, Illinois, the great seal of Illinois in the center and my EMT cert number on the bottom. This satisified her and she let me treat her. So big deal, I carry a badge. Not on my shirt, but in my wallet. If it were truly ego, I would be one of those guys that wears a shirt that says EMS or EMT everywhere they go no matter if they are on duty or not. I carry it as a valid form of identification because it has badge numbers which correspond directly to my ID. Can we please move on. Heres the solution: if you dont want to carry a badge...dont. But dont bash those who do simply because they work in a different way than you do. That, my friend, is the ultimate display of ego.