rock_shoes Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Right on Brother! Lets take this situation for you gotta get there nubes still out there. You are 2 cars back behind a car stopped at a red light of a busy intersection. Mommy and baby are belted in waiting for the light to turn green. Your truck is over hanging their rear bumper blasting your air horn lights and sirens! Terrified and distracted by you, mommy wants to get her baby away from you and sees the car in front of her went through the intersection and made it. Mommy, being distracted by you a screaming baby and cross traffic in the intersection creeps into the busy intersection to get her terrified and screaming child away from you and SLAM, is broadsided by an 18year old blasting snoop dog on his base woofer in his low rider. What happens now? If you are unable to go through an intersection (stopping on a red regardless) without forcing another motorist into oncoming traffic you should downgrade your response to routine until the intersection clears on its own. That's iron clad policy where I work and should be everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlerrf Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) Man dont be up in here dissin my ride n snoop dog oughta put a cap in yo wanksta ass .... eh, whatever, I drive an 80s Mitsi like friggin Nana styles. A very good point, our driver training manual points out exactly this situation and advises if you're in gridlock to turn off the siren for this very reason as it freaks other people out and makes you look like a dick sitting there going whoop-whoop-wail-phazer-ice cream or whatever funky siren they are up to now. Ill stop 3 car car lengths back and shut down the show and I will not push sombody through a light. I turn it on at the green and my partners think Im nuts, I dont understand why they dont get the concept? Unfortunately, I think there may be readers in here who arent fessing up and seeing the light! This is a really important simple cheap easy concept if you want a carrer in EMS! Edited December 12, 2009 by kohlerrf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMT Headed Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Kohlerrf, I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you suggesting that we no longer run hot when called for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPINFV Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Kohlerrf, I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you suggesting that we no longer run hot when called for? No. You don't run hot when running hot means that you can cause other vehicles to crash (such as forcing other cars into intersections against red). What should arguably happen more is more preplanning on the part of the driver. If there's a red light ahead with traffic backed up, switch to the opposite lane, if safe, and go against traffic (the other lane should have a red also, so there should only be a trickle of cars coming from turns) until you reach the intersection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 No. You don't run hot when running hot means that you can cause other vehicles to crash (such as forcing other cars into intersections against red). What should arguably happen more is more preplanning on the part of the driver. If there's a red light ahead with traffic backed up, switch to the opposite lane, if safe, and go against traffic (the other lane should have a red also, so there should only be a trickle of cars coming from turns) until you reach the intersection. Good example of a basic 'evasive maneuver'. Have I used it? Yes. Do I reccomend it for every call? NO. I've never understood the need to run 'hot' to every call. It not only creates an 'insensitivity' to the lights and siren, but it also puts the general public (and the responding crews) at unnecessary risk. In MI (the only state I can quote with authority), there IS a requirement that if you're running lights you MUST operate the siren. Aside from that, there is nothing in that state's Motor Vehicle Code that REQUIRES the use of lights and siren when the vehicle is in motion to a call or from a call to the hospital. I've even seen a crew get ticketed for running lights and siren to the hospital for a possible broken tib/fib. I don't care if you ARE a 'newb' or not....there's an appropriate time and place for lights and siren, and that doesn't include EVERY call. When running lights and sirens...you must be even MORE careful than you are normally. (I love how people will say something like, "I'm the most careful/responsible driver I know!). Just because you have lights and siren operating, you DON'T have the 'right' to blow through stop lights/stop signs, you're not automatically granted the right of way and you do NOT have the 'right' to exceed the speed limits by 20 mph or more! Even with lights and siren activated, you MUST drive according to the weather conditions, traffic and with 'due regard' for the general public. You cause an accident in an emergency vehicle that's running 'hot'...you're AUTOMATICALLY 'at fault'! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Good example of a basic 'evasive maneuver'. Have I used it? Yes. Do I reccomend it for every call? NO. I've never understood the need to run 'hot' to every call. It not only creates an 'insensitivity' to the lights and siren, but it also puts the general public (and the responding crews) at unnecessary risk. In MI (the only state I can quote with authority), there IS a requirement that if you're running lights you MUST operate the siren. Aside from that, there is nothing in that state's Motor Vehicle Code that REQUIRES the use of lights and siren when the vehicle is in motion to a call or from a call to the hospital. I've even seen a crew get ticketed for running lights and siren to the hospital for a possible broken tib/fib. I don't care if you ARE a 'newb' or not....there's an appropriate time and place for lights and siren, and that doesn't include EVERY call. When running lights and sirens...you must be even MORE careful than you are normally. (I love how people will say something like, "I'm the most careful/responsible driver I know!). Just because you have lights and siren operating, you DON'T have the 'right' to blow through stop lights/stop signs, you're not automatically granted the right of way and you do NOT have the 'right' to exceed the speed limits by 20 mph or more! Even with lights and siren activated, you MUST drive according to the weather conditions, traffic and with 'due regard' for the general public. You cause an accident in an emergency vehicle that's running 'hot'...you're AUTOMATICALLY 'at fault'! Ticket for running code for a tib fib? What vehicle code were they breaking? And I have a partner that loves driving hella fast when we're running code... To me, the time you save running code isn't made in the speed traveling, it's getting through intersections and not having to wait as much. I also slow done for green lights at intersections, people do stupid things. And when I get to a jammed intersection, I go to second primary, which is a steady red + opticom flasher (Which doesn't work on half our intersections for some reason :/ ) and back yellow / red strobes. So they people up front don't see hella flashing lights in their rear view mirror. But the people behind you know to stay pulled over or to not move in front of you. This also kills the siren. And soon as the green goes up and a few cars go through and are a little more spread out, back up to full code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPINFV Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Ticket for running code for a tib fib? What vehicle code were they breaking? Probably the one for running code for patients who don't need to be ran code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Star Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Ticket for running code for a tib fib? What vehicle code were they breaking? Probably the one for running code for patients who don't need to be ran code. Good call, JP! The tib/fib fracture wasn't a 'life threatening injury' and therefore there was no need to run 'hot' to the hospital. Besides that, with a tib/fib fracture, wouldn't you be doing greater good by not driving like a bat out of hell and not jarring your patient around? Not only that, but if you displace that fracture (turn a closed fracture into an open one) because you're driving like an idiot with lights and sirens on...what do you think is going to happen to your license (and possibly your bank account) when the patient sues you and your partner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwiology Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I am a staunch advocate of safe driving and loathe these wanksta's who just want to drive fast and play with the lights. I also firmly believe that these "response targets" such as our 8 minute mark, the 6.5 minute "call connect" standard in the UK etc do not help and are largely unnecessary as they encourage dangerous driving behaviour. So let me turn this on the head then; I put it out there that can anybody find any evidence that running around using opposite road lanes, weaving in an out of traffic and zooming around lit up like a Christmas tree at some obnoxious speed does any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard B the EMT Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 A crew running L&S for a Fractured Tib-Fib? FAIL I would say 95% of the time, that would be a stable injury, and the "Need for the Speed" is replaced by the need of the "Ride that's a Glide". That remaining 5%? Suspected arterial bleed and/or suspected nerve damage MIGHT be requiring the L&S. I emphasize "MIGHT". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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