Lone Star Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Ok y'all, this seemed like the perfect place for this question: For those that know,(and fewer who care), I'm currently enrolled in the EMT-B/EMT-I program at a local college here in GA. Currently, we're using this book: Having said this, here's my 'quandry'.... How does one correct the information provided by an instructor (information that is blatantly wrong) without insulting the instructor and getting thrown out of class for being 'confrontational'? Case in point, (at least in this case): The instructor informed us last night that our textbook (shown above) gave the 'wrong deifinition' of a couple words. The words in question are: chronotropy (defined in the book as: pertaining to heart rate). The instructor stated that this word was defined as "stroke volume" inotropy (defined in the book as: pertaining to cardiac contractile force). The instructor stated that the word was defined as "cardiac rate". The instructor went on to say that the definitions in 'our books' were wrong and that the definitions in 'her book' were the correct answers. Having checked multiple sources for the definitions, 'our books' are correct in their definitions. My issues: 1. If there is "our books" and "her book"; this tells me that the instructor is teaching out of a different source than what we're expected to learn from.... 2. If 'our books' are always 'wrong', then why are we required to use them, instead of using the 'correct books'? I mean, after all; aren't we SUPPOSED to be learning the 'right stuff' before we hit the streets? This isn't the first 'incident', and I'm sure it won't be the last. Do I approach the course advisor over this? Do I just suck it up and score these questions wrong on tests? Am I wrong for wanting the CORRECT information presented to the class, or am I just being too picky? THis isn't my first 'go around' in EMS education, so I think I DO know what I'm talking about. I was an EMT-B for 12 years. I feel that since I DO know that 'bad information' is being presented, that I have a responsibility to make sure that the 'right stuff' is presented. I just don't want to get thrown out of class in the process! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireflymedic Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 the information within the intermediate book is correct - chorotropy - think chrono (time) chronotropic drugs increase the heart rate. inotropy - inotropic drugs increase the strength of contraction. As far as correcting the instructor, I would suggest speaking with them aside of class and requesting handouts of the material she is coming from and holding you responsible for. Also clarify what information you will be responsible for (if it is hers then she needs to be giving you handouts for reference if different from your book). If the problem continues and is significant then you can appeal to the chair of the department, and if that brings no success going higher within the food chain. I would highly suggest resolving it independently with the instructor first through the above suggestions before going to the alternative routes. Either way - if this is the case, bad instructor and if unwilling to change - shouldn't be teaching, but since they are, you do the best you can. Go by the book for national registry's account. Similar issues have come up with Nancy Caroline's paramedic book with incorrect material which varies from what is national registry's. You are not alone and no book nor instructor is perfect just remember that. Good luck with class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Instructor Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 my 'quandry'.... How does one correct the information provided by an instructor (information that is blatantly wrong) without insulting the instructor and getting thrown out of class for being 'confrontational'? Case in point, (at least in this case): The instructor informed us last night that our textbook (shown above) gave the 'wrong deifinition' of a couple words. The words in question are: chronotropy (defined in the book as: pertaining to heart rate). The instructor stated that this word was defined as "stroke volume" inotropy (defined in the book as: pertaining to cardiac contractile force). The instructor stated that the word was defined as "cardiac rate". The instructor went on to say that the definitions in 'our books' were wrong and that the definitions in 'her book' were the correct answers. Having checked multiple sources for the definitions, 'our books' are correct in their definitions. My issues: 1. If there is "our books" and "her book"; this tells me that the instructor is teaching out of a different source than what we're expected to learn from.... 2. If 'our books' are always 'wrong', then why are we required to use them, instead of using the 'correct books'? I mean, after all; aren't we SUPPOSED to be learning the 'right stuff' before we hit the streets? This isn't the first 'incident', and I'm sure it won't be the last. Do I approach the course advisor over this? Do I just suck it up and score these questions wrong on tests? Am I wrong for wanting the CORRECT information presented to the class, or am I just being too picky? THis isn't my first 'go around' in EMS education, so I think I DO know what I'm talking about. I was an EMT-B for 12 years. I feel that since I DO know that 'bad information' is being presented, that I have a responsibility to make sure that the 'right stuff' is presented. I just don't want to get thrown out of class in the process! WOW. First, I cannot believe that this instructor is so ignorant to the fact your research into the definitions is wrong. Any instructor that's worth their salt should percieve this as 'feedback'. Question that I have, is the National Registry still going to test this level or drop it before your class is completed? Who knows, as this process has been ongoing for some time now. The main thing that the instructor should be following in the standard curriculum and teaching from that, using the book as a supplement. You, confronting the instructor with supporting evidence should taken as a very caring and passionate response to what your goal is, to obtain this level of certification. You want to learn, but you want to learn the right information. I will wait for further responses to add to this topic's subject matter. You follow the course objectives, and if problems continue, it is your prerogative to take it to the next level, ie. the medical director for the course (as every EMS class should have a medical direction through the training facility). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwade Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hey man, That is an easy one, Just send me her email, and I will be happy to educate her for you. Sorry, you have to go through this my friend.... Let me know, JW 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMedic65 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It's in your right as a student to want the correct information. Going about getting the right information that is being presented to you incorrectly should be taken up with the EMS Education Board (the people who gave her the certification/rights to instruct these classes). I would also bring it up to the course adviser, program director and even the dean. This is your education, for treating patients who need your help and may be dying without your help. Having the right information in your head is paramount. Just be more tactful about it. If you DO go and make a big stink about it, and nothing happens, surely the instructor would have an idea of who started it. You mentioned before that you confronted her before about this stuff. It's not a good idea to get on her bad side, since they have a way of weeding people out. So, be careful. If Jwade starts thrashing into her, your class might end up like a Harvard Medical school program... he would set her straight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA_Medic Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I can't believe you still have the "be all and end all" instructors in these days. Would you really be thrown off the class for correcting the mistake? I mean seriously, being an instructor I welcome comments and criticism. As a student paying for the course (?) you have the right to getting the (correct) information that you are paying for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Instructor Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Question.....What sort of credentials does this instructor have? What current EMS level are they at? How long have they been teaching this course? Have they ever been a provider at the level you are being taught? Are they a moron or not????? (Oh, I guess we might already know this one) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMedic65 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I can't believe you still have the "be all and end all" instructors in these days. Would you really be thrown off the class for correcting the mistake? I mean seriously, being an instructor I welcome comments and criticism. As a student paying for the course (?) you have the right to getting the (correct) information that you are paying for. Not ALL instructors here are like that, but there are a few. There was a couple like that where I went to medic school. They were basically just guest instructors, not being employed by the school or anything. A few times some wouldn't teach certain methods or use of certain meds because "we don't use them here". A few were down right pricks and were yelling at students. A few acted like Lone's instructor. They didn't last long though. The lead instructor kicked them out like a bad habit. Learning is a process that many don't always do at the same pace. Especially in EMS, it is very important to get the right info and the best info, rather than having to find out it's not correct and end up reteaching yourself stuff while you are getting behind on everything else. My instructors (the real ones) always went out of there way to make sure had the most up to date and proper information on whatever we were learning. Even if that meant calling the publisher and making complaints to them about info in the book (yes, the book CAN be wrong sometimes). If we had a question, be it one person or more, they would stop and explain things. We always had off the wall questions about things, that were new in the profession, and they would come back with research they did to give up answers. If they were incorrect on something, they would question why they were wrong, and accept it. No one knows it all in this business. They would come back again, with more research on the subject and teach the proper info. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Plain Ruff Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 nothing like learning from a 24 year old textbook. That teacher you are learning from must be on the cutting edge of EMS edumacation. I feel for you man, a nice face to face would be nice but I'm going to assume that you will get no-where with her. She does know that newer books have been published, they are even in color including some special full color diagrams. right???? but if you go to her and she rebuff's you then you go higher. You probably won't get anywhere with her or higher up though. PM me if you need help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireMedic65 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 nothing like learning from a 24 year old textbook. That teacher you are learning from must be on the cutting edge of EMS edumacation. I feel for you man, a nice face to face would be nice but I'm going to assume that you will get no-where with her. She does know that newer books have been published, they are even in color including some special full color diagrams. right???? but if you go to her and she rebuff's you then you go higher. You probably won't get anywhere with her or higher up though. PM me if you need help. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but all EMT-B/I/P courses MUST be taught to the national standard, regardless if they are testing to that standard or know. For example, we learned a lot of medications in P school, that aren't even on the approved list of PA to use in pre-hospital (for paramedic, not pertaining to a PHRN). We tested on many procedures that aren't in our scope in the EMS Region. Even the text books had to be update to follow the national standard of education in EMS. Maybe this is just a PA thing, I am not sure. But this so called "teacher" needs to be put in her place and go sit in the corner while a real teacher, teaches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts