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August 9, 1945


paramedicmike

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Good reminder Mike - thanks. May we never forget it, nor ever repeat it. Amazingly sad what destruction can be caused in so little time. Hopefully we can find more diplomatic ends to things than blowing each other up.

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1) Per popular stories told, when FDR died, Truman had no idea that the Manhattan Project existed.

2) The Nagasaki Bomb was the same type as the "Trinity" test in NM.

3) There had been discussion if the Allied Command should do a "Demonstration" bombing of an unoccupied area of Japan, to give them an idea what they potentially would face if they didn't surrender. They decided to do a surprise bombing, instead.

4) If the "demonstration" bombing had gone through, it would have been the then untested type dropped on Hiroshima. They had no clear idea if the device was going to work.

5) The Allied Command was drafting invasion and occupation plans when the 2 devices were used. Had these plans been utilized, an unknown large number of both attacking and defensive personnel would have died at each other's hands. (While everything on the bombs is available for research online, a great deal of speculation on the invasion/occupation plan suggests we might still be fighting somewhere in Japan today, per what I have seen and read, but am unable to document here specifically.)

6) The United States is the only nation to have ever used an Atomic weapon against any other country.

7) There were American POW casualties in both cities, as both had POW camps on the outskirts.

8) I am trying to verify a story, that a survivor of Hiroshima got out, and was telling the story of what had happened, to friends or family in Nagasaki, 3 days later, when it happened again. If this tale is true, he is (or was), perhaps, the only person ever to survive 2 atomic bomb attacks.

9) Tibbits, piloting the "Enola Gay", dropped his device on target. Bock, piloting "Bock's Car", missed his intended target, but caused more damage and death than originally estimated, where the device he dropped actually exploded.

10) The "Thermonuclear" or "H" bombs now in the arsenals use Hiroshima or Nagasaki sized "A" Bombs as the triggering device. Consider them to be "blasting caps" for the bigger bombs.

Not to make light of it, but speculation has the US arsenal of Atomic and Hydrogen weapons as being enough to wipe out all life on the planet times 7. Add the former USSR's, Israel, India, Pakistan, China, and whoever else has one...

We got big bombs, bigger bombs, and "didn't there used to be a planet here?"

Edited by Richard B the EMT
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1) Per popular stories told, when FDR died, Truman had no idea that the Manhattan Project existed.

Not entirely true. He knew something was up but didn't know specifics.

The Senate Committee lead by HT, ultimately known as the Truman Committee, was, among other things, involved in trying to prevent fraudulent and wasteful spending with regards to the military and war. The investigators who answered to the committee kept finding evidence of a major project (the Manhattan Project) but couldn't get details.

Truman, in an attempt to find out what was going on, spoke via telephone with Secretary of War Stimson. Stimson told him, "It's part of a very important secret development." Harry Truman replied, "You assure that this is for a specific purpose and you think it's all right. That's all I need to know." Truman then let it drop.

Committee investigators continued to pick up bits and pieces that allowed Truman to figure out what the project was doing but not what kind of specific bomb they were building. He even went so far as to refer to a "terrific explosion for a secret weapon that will be a wonder." in a letter to former Senator and then District Judge Schwellenbach. (Not only was it a letter sent via the US Mail but it was dictated to his secretary. Think of the security breach!)

So, he knew something was there. What it was and what it was doing he had only the slightest inkling. Only when he was briefed after FDR died was he able to put it all together.

-be safe

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I think they definitely knew what the Atom bomb was capable of they tested them enough. I think they knew what it would do to the people, and how long it would last. That's why they used them, and it saved untold hundreds of thousands of lives too. That I wouldn't debate. Going by my studies, as I researched WWII extensively for a book I wrote in 2005 about the 329th Infantry. This was a mission of last resort, in my opinion, and I think afterward, the people knew that. The country was running out of money. There were attacks on the main land US, torpedo and incendiary bombs. It was only a matter of time till our sea ports and ocean going vessels wouldn't have been safe. Who knows how long WWII would have gone on in the Pacific. Probably till every last Japanese soldier was dead, and most of ours too. I'm not a bleeding heart, but I don't think that nations walloping each other with nuclear devices - NOW, would do anything but lead to the extinction of man kind.

Albert Einstein

- I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

Edited by 4c6
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Crotchity, you are a fool. I don't understand what your malfunction is. I really don't.

We all appreciate a world that has been shaped by the magnitude of this power. I don't think any of us decry something that we cannot possibly change; we can analyze it and understand it, and some will claim it an atrocity while others will view it as a political necessity that potentially saved more lives than were lost.

We would be fools to not recognize the destructive capabilities and intense power associated with these historical events. And it is well to remember, rather than allowing ourselves to forget and our understanding to fade.

Wendy

CO EMT-B

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Crotchity, you are a fool. I don't understand what your malfunction is. I really don't.

Well.. I just seen this, and I think it pretty much sums it up for you, Wendy...

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Yes, please resort to name-calling when you have no historical knowlege to back up your liberal views. The reason we lost in Vietnam, have been in Iraq twice, and are currently in Afghanistan for probably the next 10 years is because we do not have the "will" to fight wars as they should be fought. War is war, and civilians do die in war. If we had carpet-bombed (not nuclear bombs) Iraq back in the early 90s, and fought the war like WW1 and WW2 were fought, we would not have the problems we have today with Pakistan, Afghanistan, North Korea, and IRAN.

You will note that the muslim terrorists do not have any sympathy for civilian life. We have shown up at a gun fight with a knife.

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Crotch, while I entirely agree with your point, I have to also agree with Ruffems, in that it has nothing to do with what he posted.

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Yes, please resort to name-calling when you have no historical knowlege to back up your liberal views. The reason we lost in Vietnam, have been in Iraq twice, and are currently in Afghanistan for probably the next 10 years is because we do not have the "will" to fight wars as they should be fought. War is war, and civilians do die in war. If we had carpet-bombed (not nuclear bombs) Iraq back in the early 90s, and fought the war like WW1 and WW2 were fought, we would not have the problems we have today with Pakistan, Afghanistan, North Korea, and IRAN.

You will note that the muslim terrorists do not have any sympathy for civilian life. We have shown up at a gun fight with a knife.

Oh crotch did you get your feelings hurt when some of us called you an idiot or other name. But your double standard is that you can call us racists or hood wearing racists yet you get your wittle feeewings hurt when someone calls you an idiot.

You have shown your liberal leanings in calling for 10million dollars to each black family in america so "they can get ahead of the white man" or just to use the money to put the white man in his place.

poor poor crotchity, I apologize for calling you a name, please don't go to the principal and tattle on me.

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Way to go non-sequitir! First of all, I am not liberal. While I am actually much more conservative than most in my age group, I now classify myself as an independent. My views, much like the issues I ponder, are usually not simple and don't fall to "left" or "right"... Way to stereotype, and to completely miss the content of my post (again).

How we've fought in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq is only tangentially related to the original intent of this thread, which was to remind us all of the terrible and awesome power of nuclear technology, as well as the responsibilities that go along with wielding said power.

Your contribution to the discussion began, let me remind you, with this:

bunch of pu**ies ------- you realize how many of you would have never known your grandpa if it wasnt for the bomb -- do you realize how many of you panzies would have never been born

You started by calling names and jumping to the conclusion that we were all "afraid" of the bomb or weeping heart liberals who cry every day for the shadows burned into the ground at Hiroshima... which was not the content of the thread at all. People were merely discussing the power of nuclear bombs, and musing as to whether those who created them really understood the capacity of their creation...

You, sir, I iterate again, are a FOOL.

I am perfectly aware of our military history (and have probably studied it a bit more extensively than you have) and while I share your view that our assertions of power and dominance have been lacking in recent years, I disagree with those who would "nuke Mecca." I have a profound distaste for extremism, no matter which side of the line it falls on.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread concerning the historical anniversary of the use of nuclear bombs...

Wendy

CO EMT-B

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