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your opinion on a manditory 2 year degree for paramedic


2 year degree, good or bad?  

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i don't know about how long your medic school is but mine is at least 1500hrs of class time. You obviously didn't read my post very well. I said it was just my opinion not necessarily yours. And when you say it opens doors by having a degree, this means everyone will have to have thereby not accomplishing anything at all. Correct me if i missed anything but if everyone has the same education what kind of doors will be opened.

Again I repeat what I said earlier. I'm all for getting a education. I plan on going to get at least an AA or AS when I'm done with medic school.

Also why try to make it so hard to become a medic. When there are always shortages (at least where I live). As long as there good medics and understand the human body and the drugs they give and they pass there examination. Bring them on.

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The problem is that there are a lot of very ignorant people who can pass the test (which is not nearly hard enough at any level). Just knowing what to do and when is not enough. You need to understand a tremendous amount more if you want to be able to help this become more than just a job. This is a career field and it needs to be treated as such. The only way to do that is to impose more staunch educational requirements upon those entering the field, irregardless of a shortage. I don't see nursing lowering their standards and they are far more shorthanded than EMS is currently.

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The same doors that are opened for other health care professionals.. look at nursing, physicians.. oh yeah, they get paid more... hmmm maybe there is a reason ? Again what other health care profession, does not require at least an associate degree for entry level ? ....

C'mon folks .. it's time for EMS to grow up...! If you are tired of low pay, lousy benefits.. then do something about it & quit whining !.. Get actively involved in EMS reconstruction & demand more money, & benefits...but before you do... we had better have something better to offer than a class measured in clock hours....Sorry professional standards are never measure education in clock/class room hours..

Be safe,

Ridyder 911

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i never said anything about lowering there standards. And I say again for the 3rd time that if they are good medics and know there stuff and are qualified there shouldn't be a degree requirement. I think a lot of you are not really understanding what i am trying to say.

Education is a good thing. But for the money medics are making now. Saying they don't get a pay raise for there education requirements it would be pointless to have a 2yr degree or more. (related to the EMS field)

Rid I think that you are right on the ball with your comments.

I do encourage raising the bar.

I'm sorry if i am sending the wrong message just my OPINIONS

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I already have a couple of diplomas/ATAs in various health care fields [RT, LPN/RN, ORT, Combat Medic, ACLS/BCLS though not all of them are current license] and I, for one, don't want to spend *another* two years [on top of what I've already spent getting back into my EMT-B] going for my EMT-P. I can understand that if someone is coming into EMS for the first time that they may well need the additional time, but some of us simply don't want to have to take/retake 'medical terminology' again, or basic A&P again. {Nor do out budgets want us to take them}. As long as there is something in place for us 'Old Fogies' to challenge/CLEP, I'm willing to discuss the possibility. I can already 'tube' [RT], been starting IV's for years [that whole nursing/medic thing], etc. Yeah, a refresher in new techniques and meds is deff. a must, but please don't penalize some of us by making things 'maditory' across the board.

So sorry, you are an EMT-B who is going for your EMT-P? But you have various other certs. and don't think you should have to do a 2 year program because of it? Doesn't matter, different fields regardless of similar skill sets.

In Ontario, there are no bridging programs for RT/RN or even MD's I believe. They all would have to start from scratch. 2 year PCP + 1 year ACP + 1 year CCP, with various road time in between. Will it be "easier" for them? Yes, very likely, but that doesn't exempt them. I personally know of several example's of RTs or RNs who wanted to enter prehospital medicine. They all had to start from scratch.

But of course there will always be grandfather clauses. I also don't think that a EMT-P practicing for X years, should have to go back to school for another 2 years to "re-learn" things. Perhaps self-study modules or CME's for areas that might be expanded since they were in school.

This happened recently in Ontario. They introduced a provincial ACP exam in 2003 I believe. All ACP's that had done there training before X date did not have to write the exam. All after X date and all future ACP's had to write. Grandfather clause, happens all the time.

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i never said anything about lowering there standards. And I say again for the 3rd time that if they are good medics and know there stuff and are qualified there shouldn't be a degree requirement. I think a lot of you are not really understanding what i am trying to say.

Education is a good thing. But for the money medics are making now. Saying they don't get a pay raise for there education requirements it would be pointless to have a 2yr degree or more. (related to the EMS field)

Rid I think that you are right on the ball with your comments.

I do encourage raising the bar.

I'm sorry if i am sending the wrong message just my OPINIONS

It's like saying that, well the ship is leaking, but lets keep on sailing because most of the compartments don't have water in them. If you want to retain more of the "good" medics you need to make this a profitable career which means advancing things educationally and legislatively.

I find it rather contradictory that you are all for advancing the field but you have a problem with the way of doing that. As I've pointed out before, in various debates, you don't make rules for the best and brightest- the good medics- you make them for the dumbest and most immoral EMS provider- the one you wouldn't let treat your dog. You increase the educational requirements from what they are now in order to weed out the less desirables and grossly unqualified, at the same time making the "good" medics you speak of, even better.

I believe Lee Iacoca said it best in those old Chrysler commercials: "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

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WOW

I said my opinions. We are all on the same team here. They way I feel about this topic has been said. And I hope you except them no matter what your feelings on the topic are. I dont mean to piss anyone off. These are just opinions.

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So sorry, you are an EMT-B who is going for your EMT-P? But you have various other certs. and don't think you should have to do a 2 year program because of it? Doesn't matter, different fields regardless of similar skill sets.

In Ontario, there are no bridging programs for RT/RN or even MD's I believe. They all would have to start from scratch. 2 year PCP + 1 year ACP + 1 year CCP, with various road time in between. Will it be "easier" for them? Yes, very likely, but that doesn't exempt them. I personally know of several example's of RTs or RNs who wanted to enter prehospital medicine. They all had to start from scratch.

But of course there will always be grandfather clauses. I also don't think that a EMT-P practicing for X years, should have to go back to school for another 2 years to "re-learn" things. Perhaps self-study modules or CME's for areas that might be expanded since they were in school.

This happened recently in Ontario. They introduced a provincial ACP exam in 2003 I believe. All ACP's that had done there training before X date did not have to write the exam. All after X date and all future ACP's had to write. Grandfather clause, happens all the time.

What I said [or meant to say] was: why should I have to retake classes I've already had to take several times before just so I can 'get the hours'? Med terminology hasn't changed all that much in the last three years and I think I'm a big enough adult to be able to study on my own. Same with 'personal health' [ a required 5 credit class in our local EMT-P program]. Or take a whole extra 3 credit class [and have to pay the costs] for *another* CPR class when I have to maintain my 'CPR for the Professional Rescuer' for my EMT-B? Yeah, EMS and RT are different fields, but medicine is medicine and the language and science of medicine is the same no matter the field. The local program slots their students into the same basic classes the RN program uses. And the RT, the X-Ray techs etc. That sounds pretty generic to me.

Mandatory hour/class credit requirements will only create a 'paper professional'. We all know folks who can 'talk the talk', but get them out scraping 'pavement pizza' and they can't make 'the walk' work for them. One thing my local comm college program require that I think *is* one of the ways to go is you have to have your EMT-B first and work at least a year as one before you can start the selection process. This is a "Good Thing" [tm] in my book because folks going into the program know what they're getting into.

But I am still and will always be against 'mandatory hour/class' requirements just to fill someone Elses idea of a 'professional quota'. Book class work is just that and if a person can demonstrate functionality gained outside of that particular classroom, why not? Spend the time and funds learning the stuff specific to the EMS field, not the stuff that every health care provider needs to have. Spend the money on making cont ed available to everyone. My current sponsor is the Red Cross [working on a Fire Dept Sponsor also] and they don't provide squat for cont ed for EMS [except for hosting the monthly OTEP]. Make cont ed available to us 'sponsorless' folks who don't have the bennies of working for companies and depts who provide cont ed for free. Get the info out to the folks using it.

So, again FWIW, I know a lot of health care fields don't do 'cross-over'. Why do you think I've got so many 'little' degrees. :wink: But no one should be put out in the finance dept. because someone somewhere decides that you *have* to have "X" hours in *this* program's classes when you've already don't the silly things somewhere else.

In the end it's 'reality' and 'experience' that teaches, not always the classroom. More hours on your butt in classes won't turn out good EMT-P's. More time in the field learning the ropes with a good foundation [no matter how it was gotten] will.

As I've said: JMHO - YMMV.

Next rant? Why do EMT-B / EMT-P have to have 'sponsors' [at least in Washington State] to get/ get their state license and other health care providers don't? Why can I simply renew my nursing and RT license each year mo matter if I'm currently working or not [as long as I can prove CE's] but to keep my EMT I have to be on some-body's 'hand receipt'?

Think about it...

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