Jump to content

your opinion on a manditory 2 year degree for paramedic


2 year degree, good or bad?  

118 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • good
      89
    • bad
      29


Recommended Posts

Physics is definitely an important class to understand the law of force, flow and pressure which can be applied to almost any system or piece of equipment used in medicine. I have an easier time teaching the basics of respiratory theory to FFs than to EMT(P)s who have no FF background just because the FFs have more recent and practical knowledge of some of the laws of physics.

Calculus, or at least a survey course, is also good if you want a higher understanding of the scientific literature especially in the cardiac and pulmonary systems. Of course, calculus and physics do go hand in hand in designing many of equations. Many people in the EMS profession complain that there are very few involved in research for prehospital medicine. There is considerable research going on but by practitioners of other professions that do have a more solid eduational base. The literature is then published in scientific journals which is where it remains until somebody simplifies if for JEMS.

A Statistics class is also very valuable to allow you to weed through the masses of medical literature. Unfortunately many in EMS do wait for JEMS or some similar publication to put a scientific article from a medical journal into easy speak language. Some things do get lost in the interpretation depending on the education and understanding of the person attempting to over simplify the article. That person's own personal opinion may also come through in writing the article thus missing the actual value of the original.

Both Physics and Statistics enables one to sort out the theory and the facts a little easier. Many often confuse the two.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 194
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Both Physics and Statistics enables one to sort out the theory and the facts a little easier. Many often confuse the two.

Do we really want to do this? ... :D

I agree all the background science will only benefit us, but remember if we require more than some medical schools, we will never get Paramedic students. Not that I am in favor of dumbing anything down, but seriously who wants to get their pre-med and work for peanuts? I would settle for the basic science courses, to start out at. Maybe if one wants to focus or pursue a special tract, higher level of math, science, etc. should be mandated.

R/r 911

Link to post
Share on other sites
Physics is definitely an important class to understand the law of force, flow and pressure which can be applied to almost any system or piece of equipment used in medicine. I have an easier time teaching the basics of respiratory theory to FFs than to EMT(P)s who have no FF background just because the FFs have more recent and practical knowledge of some of the laws of physics.

Exactly- because the firefighters learned what they needed to know about physics for their job at the fire academy, including formulas- you don't see anyone suggesting they need to know how to calculate the mass of a black hole or something in order to run a fire pump.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Exactly- because the firefighters learned what they needed to know about physics for their job at the fire academy, including formulas- you don't see anyone suggesting they need to know how to calculate the mass of a black hole or something in order to run a fire pump.

Your point?? :?:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly- because the firefighters learned what they needed to know about physics for their job at the fire academy, including formulas- you don't see anyone suggesting they need to know how to calculate the mass of a black hole or something in order to run a fire pump.

A simple college physics class has little to do with the advanced quantum physics that you are suggesting.

It just makes it easier when teaching people who do not have college sciences to use examples of what they know to teach some medical applications. Yes, FF/EMT-Ps may have the advantage over non-FFs and may grasp the basic workng principles but still do not have enough science background for much more than following a recipe when it comes to some procedures and technology. Unfortunately, EMS has based its education on just excerpts and not understanding the concept of what is involved.

It is when you have enough classes to apply the learned concepts that you can better understand how the human body functions and how to apply the knowledge to the equipment or skills you utilize. .

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do we really want to do this? ... :D

I agree all the background science will only benefit us, but remember if we require more than some medical schools, we will never get Paramedic students. Not that I am in favor of dumbing anything down, but seriously who wants to get their pre-med and work for peanuts? I would settle for the basic science courses, to start out at. Maybe if one wants to focus or pursue a special tract, higher level of math, science, etc. should be mandated.

R/r 911

Well, to be fair, plenty of non-medical schools require "more" than medical schools. Medical school doesn't require anatomy, physiology, medical terminology, ECG, ACLS, or another certification (EMT-Basic). Instead it's a year of bio, year of G-Chem, year of O-Chem, and a year of physics. Most require calculus/statistics (2 semesters of Calc or 1 of Calc and 1 of Stats) and a growing number require biochem or a few other courses.

In addition, looking at purely numbers, medical school is much harder to get into than medic school. The competition and cost of applying (regardless of if you get in) are high. I think even with a 4 year BS requirement, it would be a while before paramedicine rivals the entrance regiment for medical school.

To me, some of the courses are complementary. There is practically zero coverage of histology and biochemistry in anatomy and physiology [separate courses] this semester. Why? Because we had an entire semester of them (5 unit course) last semester. A/P builds very nicely off of histology.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Exactly- because the firefighters learned what they needed to know about physics for their job at the fire academy, including formulas- you don't see anyone suggesting they need to know how to calculate the mass of a black hole or something in order to run a fire pump.

Exactly. I agree that Physics is a must for a professional EMS degree programme. However, I would have to also agree that the two semester course offered by most universities is almost mind-numbing overkill for us. I remember too much of it being really "out there" and lacking in any real practical benefit to EMS. Not sure if the community college courses are significantly easier. I unfortunately took mine at the university. Many nursing schools have a "Math for Health Professionals" course that takes algebra and puts it in a practical application form, which is a good thing. Not really dumbing it down so much as simply putting "X" and "Y" in a more practical context. Doing something like that with Physics could be a good thing. But, unlike the firemonkeys, we do need to actually understand what we are doing, not just know enough to go through the motions.

As for the math, Algebra and Statistics are a must for degreed professionals. Algebra is critical for competent practice. Statistics are critical to the growth of both the professional and to the profession. I see no value whatsoever to Physics. None.

General Biology? No thanks. Been there. Done that. My medical practice has not benefitted from knowing that birds have hollow bones or that cockroaches breathe through their shells. A quality, focused, human A&P course, followed up with Microbiology, Pathyphys, and supported by Physics, Chem, and Biochem is more than adequate.

I'm all for a hardcore, solid education. But, unlike pre-meds, we are not preparing for another school down the road. This IS our school. Therefore, I want to try to keep as much of our 130 hours as relevant as possible. I don't support throwing in courses of dubious relevancy simply for the sake of thinning the herd or paying dues. I want to produce competent, well rounded practitioners, not theoretical eggheads.

Ya know, two weeks ago I went to get fitted for a temporary leg brace. The guy who evaluated me, fitted me, and crafted the device had a bachelors degree in prosthetics from the same medical school I got my cheesy three-month paramedic cert from. How damn sad is that? How absolutely insane is it that the medical community put more value on the guys who make wooden legs than on paramedics?

And we still wonder why we get no respect. :?

And people still wonder why I hate vollies and firemonkeys. :roll:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dust, you've managed to confuse the "bleep" out of me. :?

In one paragraphh you question the value of physics, then turn around and suggest that it should be mandated. Please clear this up for us simple country folk.

If physics can be used as an application type course, it holds great value. Many times the difficulty with this path is the course becomes so diluted that it will hold no value. Even for a profession directed degree, once you hold it you should be able to discuss the subject matter with anyone else that has taken a similar course.

Link to post
Share on other sites
General Biology? No thanks. Been there. Done that. My medical practice has not benefitted from knowing that birds have hollow bones or that cockroaches breathe through their shells. A quality, focused, human A&P course, followed up with Microbiology, Pathyphys, and supported by Physics, Chem, and Biochem is more than adequate.

It really depends on which general bio course your talking about, though. Granted, I could be talking about the difference between general bio being in quarter format (2 courses) vs. semester format (could be condensed to 1 course). Where I took general bio, the 2 courses were split up between DNA to Organisms and Organisms to Ecosystems. The first is very relevant to insure that everyone is on the same level before starting higher science classes (A/P, biochem, microbio), the second is mind numbingly useless (especially the part where we had to memorize families).

Physics is important in a similar manner. Mechanics, energy, and electricity? Important. Waves and relativity? Not so important. The problem, though, is unless you teach the course as a part of your program, good luck finding someplace that offers a trimmed down version of physics.

Another skill that I learned in g. chem. that was reinforced in physics was dimensional analysis (understanding how equations with units worked together), a skill that is probably just as important as the entire algebra course.

Finally, would there be placement exams or a way to test out of courses? I've taken algebra 1 twice (8th, 9th grades) and Algebra 2 once (11th). There's gotta be something mind numbingly new to make me want to sit through algebra again.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dust, you've managed to confuse the "bleep" out of me. :?

In one paragraphh you question the value of physics, then turn around and suggest that it should be mandated. Please clear this up for us simple country folk.

Oops! :oops:

Sorry. I meant that I see no value in CALCULUSl, not physics. I didn't catch that until it was too late to edit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...