Jump to content

your opinion on a manditory 2 year degree for paramedic


2 year degree, good or bad?  

118 members have voted

  1. 1.

    • good
      89
    • bad
      29


Recommended Posts

Yes, a very minimum of an associates degree should be required for entry into EMS.

But no, it will never happen. The IAFF and IAFC would fight any such legislation tooth and nail, and they have HUGE political clout. And since, unfortunately, most people in this country associate EMS with the fire service, they will listen to them. Not to mention that every politician with a budget will fight it because it would more than double what they currently spend for EMS.

Our good friend from the Great White North is correct. EMS needs to be completely restructured from the top down in this country. It's a total mess.

Love to see it! But it ain't happening.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
  • Replies 194
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Here in New York you don't have to have an associates degree to become a paramedic. but here in NY its a little bit different instead of having idiots become paramedics we have inexperienced people that rush into becoming a paramedic for the $money$. some haven't even mastered the skills of CPR or doing work as EMT-B.

if you have an associates degree its good for promotions in the future

i think instead of having a degree it should be based on your experience as an EMT-B.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With that thought 10-42, what about a mandatory waiting period or experience time before becomeing eligible to enroll in ALS courses???? My state used to have a 5 year mandatory waiting period for a Basic wanting to enroll into Paramedic school. I believe this gave time for the basic to function at that level and get that set of skills down pat as well as road experience. The state was churning out very experienced Medics at that point, then came along the supposed shortage of pre-hospital care providers, then the state dropped the 5 year wait. Now any idiot can pass EMT-B then go jump right into ALS courses with no experience as a provider.................... scary. :shock:

-Alco

Link to post
Share on other sites
but here in NY its a little bit different instead of having idiots become paramedics we have inexperienced people that rush into becoming a paramedic for the $money$.

EMS for the money? Anybody who thinks they are going to make good money in EMS should be rejected outright. Obviously, they lack the necessary intellect (and self-esteem) to be a good medic! :D

Anyhow, I seriously disagree with any belief that EMT experience is somehow an important pre-requisite for paramedic. I'm all for schools that take you from zero-to-hero without any intervals. Wham bam, thank you ma'am. Time spent as a basic is usually just time spent picking up bad habits. Get to medic school as fast as possible.

But to stay on-topic, yeah... two years should be the minimum education for a medic.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 months later...
Time spent as a basic is usually just time spent picking up bad habits. Get to medic school as fast as possible.

I will go to the grave disagreeing with you on this premise.

But we do agree on one thing. Ideally several good years of basic time are a good idea prior to going to medic school. But, these years have to be years learning decent habits.

Your correct, that is sadly rare.

Warm regards and happy holidays,

PRPG

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will go to the grave disagreeing with you on this premise.

But we do agree on one thing. Ideally several good years of basic time are a good idea prior to going to medic school. But, these years have to be years learning decent habits.

Your correct, that is sadly rare.

Warm regards and happy holidays,

PRPG

WOW...PRPG is drunk.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Honestly I think my neighbours down south have to re-think their pre-hospital education system. They need to revamp it from the ground up. I don't know anyone who has practiced in the US, nor have I done any research beyond what I have heard on this board. Something needs to be done. Too little education for too much responsibility. Again this generally speaking, there are quite a number of people on this board that are obviously wicked medics and clinicians.

Hungrymonkey - I would be worried if an EMT-P did not know what angiotensin II did...Let alone the entire Renin-Angiotensin-Aldosterone system...This is stuff I learned doing BLS...

While it'd be great to have a deeper understanding, I'm not sure when it will be used under an EMT-Baisc/BLS scope of practice.

If it's extra information, just for the sake of showing you're dedicated, you want to understand the big picture, and prepare you for ALS training, then I'd go along with that. It would be similar to med students needing to take calculus and organic chemistry in undergrad, then usually never use it again in their careers. Shows you're smart enough, have the dedication, interest, and commitment. If we did this, I think it might improve the field.

BUT it COULD also be considered extra information that might never be used and confuse the student. An EMTB/BLS, a technician, will not need to know about angiotensinogen to angiotensin I to II and ADH release, and so on.

We have a pretty thick book, Emergency Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured, 9th ed, supposedly the most inclusvie one being used out there (?), but from what I've gotten from the book and class is we're not making heavy analysis or conclusions. We're seeing these s/s under these circumstances, so we then do this set of symptoms. Most critical thinking involves scene safety, patient interaction, obtaining history, working in difficult environments, improvising extrications.

At least this is the impression I'm getting...what do experienced people think on this subtopic?

Link to post
Share on other sites

While it'd be great to have a deeper understanding, I'm not sure when it will be used under an EMT-Baisc/BLS scope of practice.

If it's extra information, just for the sake of showing you're dedicated, you want to understand the big picture, and prepare you for ALS training, then I'd go along with that. It would be similar to med students needing to take calculus and organic chemistry in undergrad, then usually never use it again in their careers. Shows you're smart enough, have the dedication, interest, and commitment. If we did this, I think it might improve the field.

BUT it COULD also be considered extra information that might never be used and confuse the student. An EMTB/BLS, a technician, will not need to know about angiotensinogen to angiotensin I to II and ADH release, and so on.

We have a pretty thick book, Emergency Care and Transportation of the Sick and Injured, 9th ed, supposedly the most inclusvie one being used out there (?), but from what I've gotten from the book and class is we're not making heavy analysis or conclusions. We're seeing these s/s under these circumstances, so we then do this set of symptoms. Most critical thinking involves scene safety, patient interaction, obtaining history, working in difficult environments, improvising extrications.

At least this is the impression I'm getting...what do experienced people think on this subtopic?

I agree to a point, but the problem is deeper than that.

Our current educational system is poor at best, and is the primary reason why the service doesnt receive the respect it desires. From a acedemic perspective, lets look at where we stand.

The acedemic model has a...hierarchy of sorts, with different classifications of educational programs. The model, in its traditional sense, is as follows. High School, Trade School, College Associates, College Bachelors, College masters, College PH D.

Now, obviously, there are different variants, and sub chapters of this model, but when broken down, here are the basics.

Our current educational system relies on a pre established curriculum with no acedemic basis, and is "generally" equivelent to a trade school program. Loosely interpreted, any 19 year old stoned reject can sucessfully pass a prehospital EMT-basic training program.

Scary thought.

That being said, this also relates to how were viewed within the medical community. Simply stated, a nurse with a BSN, 4 years education, two years of solid clinical experience (on day one), etc etc etc is certainly not going to have the same respect for any individual who walked through a one month course, got his golden ticket, and skipped his way to "oz".

Also, our current paramedic program ( 12 to 24 months, variant on state and region) still pales in comparison to any and all of your peers in medicine. Again, same thing. The current EMT-P program is set up equivelent to a trade school program.

A few steps more intense yes, but still a trade school equivelent.

This says nothing for physicians, who have spent YEARS longer in different educational programs.

Now, in regards to your post.

Your right, would additional courses and course requirements weed out rejects and improve the overall quality of the provider.

But....

.....will calculus and organic chemistry be helpful? Eh, maybe not as much as say...Spanish...A and P.....Biology based curriculums.....

....as long as the curriculum is filled with courses that are applicable to the specific degree program, then yes...faaabulous idea. Something weve discussed here 10 times over. Just lets not encourage tossing in useless education to numb minds and weed out idiots, lets use the time more wisely.

(SIDE NOTE) ....ummm.....vs....im not drunk bro....

Warm regards and happy holidays to all...

PRPG

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
Yes, a very minimum of an associates degree should be required for entry into EMS.

But no, it will never happen. The IAFF and IAFC would fight any such legislation tooth and nail, and they have HUGE political clout. And since, unfortunately, most people in this country associate EMS with the fire service, they will listen to them. Not to mention that every politician with a budget will fight it because it would more than double what they currently spend for EMS.

Our good friend from the Great White North is correct. EMS needs to be completely restructured from the top down in this country. It's a total mess.

Love to see it! But it ain't happening.

I'm not one to knock education, in fact, I'm a big fan of it. I guess you could say Im a big fan of RELEVANT education. Here's my question:

Just what does the 'degreed' medic know that the hospital trained medic doesn't? Both had to pass the same testing for the state and National Registry.....

Which means that they both have to have the same knowledge base to draw from.....

Could it be that the collegiate medic has nothing better to do with their time?

Could it be that the non-collegiate medic got the same 'relevant' education as the collegiate without having to waste time taking courses that have NOTHING to do with paramedicine?

Could it be that the non collegiate medic actually understands that the minor in 'music appreciation' or 'liberal arts' (both taken at college for that 'easy credit' needed to 'round out the curriculum'), is not going to affect the outcome of of the scene they're on at 3 a.m.;

How is a 47 page dissertation on the shared foot fetishes of William Shakespeare and Geoffrey Chaucer (done for 'Human Sexuality 101) going to give me a 'competetive edge' when marketing my skills to the company that can pay the most?

Dust, you keep making reference to these '90 day medics', but I've yet to see one that could actually pull off a medic class in 90 days. (Would that be possible even at 8 hours a day, Monday through Friday?)

In Michigan, the standard hospital based medic program is anywhere between 15 and 18 months.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dust, you keep making reference to these '90 day medics', but I've yet to see one that could actually pull off a medic class in 90 days. (Would that be possible even at 8 hours a day, Monday through Friday?)

Here is one that used to boast 95% National registry pass rate. Please notice it is advertised as Fire service. Notice you can start Oct 1 2007 and class ends Dec 14 2007.

http://www.teex.com/teex.cfm?pageid=traini...amp;navdiv=ESTI

There are many more. Some even advertise in ems magazines.

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...