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your opinion on a manditory 2 year degree for paramedic


2 year degree, good or bad?  

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Lets look at this from a different angle. I got my medic training through a one year program, I got a certificate that I completed the class. If I combine my EMT-B training and take three classes I can get an AAS degree in EMS. Now what would that AAS in EMS do for me? Put me at or near the top of the list for employment with an ambulance company. Sure I might not have experience, but I got that sheepskin that a lot employers look at.

A BS in EMS is great for the medic who wants move up the "corporate ladder" within EMS.

As others have mentioned having the 2yr or 4yr degree doesnt make the medic. I had lot of book smart people in my class that couldnt find their rear end from a hole in the ground when it came to doing scenarios. Instead of doing things at a rapid and thorough pace they would sit and logically thinking what and why they were doing things, mean while the pt is bleeding out.

I worked with some when I was working a shift that were third riders, and they would get extremely flustered, one went as far as saying that its not like the controlled environment of the class room, when were on scene of a nasty MVA.

Do I think that a 2yr degree is good, yes or and no. Its good for those that want to progress from being a street medic to working inner workings of EMS. Its bad if there are those people who just want to get their medic license and work the streets, with no ambition of moving up the ladder.

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MI_EMT - These people with "more education" who get flustered or suck at scenario's would likely be the exception around here. I have already mentioned how much education we get at the BLS/ALS level around here, and those that "suck" at scenario's are weeded out quickly. Of 60ish people out of 1500+ that applied in my class, only 25+ graduated after the 2 years. We thin the herd, and likely not enough.

This "logically thinking" student who wasn't doing simple initial ACBC interventions either isn't being educated properly, or can't handle the scenario environment, which I can see. I know plenty of good people who are good on the road, but when a scenario rolls around they freeze. Scenario's are easy though, beat the sheet basically, well maybe not be you feel me. Especially oral boards. LOA? airway? breathing? breath sounds? pulses? mechanism if any? Hx? etc....

I don't disagree that having a degree would definitely be an asset for climbing the "corporate ladder". A lot of jobs require a degree, any degree, for the sake of having it. Showing that you acquired the education, that you can work at that level, regardless of field of study. This is Ontario though, college and university are separate entities, and vaguely comparable outside of the fact they are both post-secondary educations. Theory vs. practical again, loosely.

The standard of education now, for the majority of "decent" jobs is a university degree/college diploma.

Why should we be exempt from having such an education? I would honestly be embarrassed if my patient asked me what kind of "training" I had to do this, and I said "oh about a month....". I probably wouldn't even be doing this job if that was the case.

Do I think that a 2yr degree is good, yes or and no. Its good for those that want to progress from being a street medic to working inner workings of EMS. Its bad if there are those people who just want to get their medic license and work the streets, with no ambition of moving up the ladder.

I couldn't disagree with you more. But anyway...

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Why should we be exempt from having such an education? I would honestly be embarrassed if my patient asked me what kind of "training" I had to do this, and I said "oh about a month....". I probably wouldn't even be doing this job if that was the case.

If someone asked me what my training was I would tell them I have had 18 months of schooling and numerous two and three day classes for advanced certifications, ACLS, BLTS, PHTLS, PALS, etc, all of which I do have. But I dont have that sheepskin that tells the world I have Associate of Applied Science Degree in Emergency Medical Services. Im not embarrassed because I dont have an advanced degree in EMS, but my training and how well I work is proof positive of how well I do my job. Pt dont care about advanced degrees, they care that you are going to save their life, or the lives of their loved ones.

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I don't have an advanced degree in EMS, but my training and how well I work is proof positive of how well I do my job. Pt don't care about advanced degrees, they care that you are going to save their life, or the lives of their loved ones.

Well unfortunately you said it.. trained.. I am not trained.. I am educated, & yes there is a difference. I am not a blue collar employee, that has to be trained & not to "think or do scientific studies" outside the normal realms.

Far as patients don't care.. why do you think physicians hang their sheepskins in their office ...? Yes, patients care.. unfortunately, a lot assume we do not have a college education, because of the current "trained" persona EMS currently has..

Be safe,

Ridryder 911

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I think this should be the least amount of time required.

Just don't penalize those of us who can learn the job and develop the skills in less that two years. Those hours spent taking the EMT-B [in the case of my program over 130 hours of specific skills classroom and hands on training], running rigs and going to OTEPs should count from something.

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It is not the amount of time.. it is the amount learned. Medical school could be taught in less than 2 yrs too.. would we want that ? Again, it is not the time, but the content that is taught.. sure you can perform your job.. but, how well & how in-depth. The point that most of us are try to coven is that the standards also need to be changed to make it more in-depth. The current standards are way below what is needed to perform emergency medical care adequately.

More clinical rotations along with associated bio-science is essential to perform clinical judgement. Whenever clinical time can be counted in hrs... then it is too short of time. Let us try months or years..

Be safe,

Ridryder 911

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It is not the amount of time.. it is the amount learned. Medical school could be taught in less than 2 yrs too.. would we want that ? Again, it is not the time, but the content that is taught.. sure you can perform your job.. but, how well & how in-depth. The point that most of us are try to coven is that the standards also need to be changed to make it more in-depth. The current standards are way below what is needed to perform emergency medical care adequately.

More clinical rotations along with associated bio-science is essential to perform clinical judgement. Whenever clinical time can be counted in hrs... then it is too short of time. Let us try months or years..

Be safe,

Ridryder 911

Ummmm...But I have lives to save.

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