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your opinion on a manditory 2 year degree for paramedic


2 year degree, good or bad?  

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In Oregon you cannot become a Paramedic without having an associates in EMS. (People like it difficult here)

what is all of your opinions on this?

I have repeatedly been told that the real education starts when you get a job, and that school is to prepare you for that. If this is so, then why would it be required to have over two years of school on subjects that do not apply medically? IE social science, human relations, etc.

The year of anatomy and physiology helped. But I learned all the pertinent stuff again during the paramedic course. Although I did have one ems call that I used the stuff from A&P. I had a patient ask if I knew what angiotensin 2 did. But she was a former A&P teacher that basically wanted me to know she was smarter than I was.

so, whats your opinion?

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Personally I'd like to see a four year degree be the baseline for EMT-Paramedic, with expanded scope practice, but this is unlikely to happen because of the vast majority of EMS agencies being only interested in keeping us as technicians who are easy to churn out in relatively large numbers.

A 2-year degree is a good start, but not ideal. As for the real "education" beginning on the street, well.....sort of. You begin to learn the exceptions to the rules and you learn the "tricks of the trade" but that is training- not education. Training is concerned with the how and the when of something, and most people excel at this manner of thing. True education is learning and knowing how and when to question the why of something. You don't pick that up in the street with most EMS services.

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I think an Associates Degree is a waste of time when you take into consideration that we are certified, not licensed and that we receive such low pay.

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I know I beat this to death, but to me it is important...

In Canada and specifically Ontario, PCP or "BLS" IS a 2-year diploma. We are educated, not trained, in the field of paramedicine. ACP or "ALS" is another year, and CCP or critical care is another year.

1EMT-P, how is education a waste of your time? Do you consider PCP/BLS in Ontario "over educated"?

Honestly I think my neighbours down south have to re-think their pre-hospital education system. They need to revamp it from the ground up. I don't know anyone who has practiced in the US, nor have I done any research beyond what I have heard on this board. Something needs to be done. Too little education for too much responsibility. Again this generally speaking, there are quite a number of people on this board that are obviously wicked medics and clinicians.

Hungrymonkey - I would be worried if an EMT-P did not know what angiotensin II did...Let alone the entire Renin-Angiotensin-Aldosterone system...This is stuff I learned doing BLS...

True education is learning and knowing how and when to question the why of something.

Well said.

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Sure, but it's a chicken and egg argument. Increase in pay comes with increase in education...increase in education comes with increase in pay.

Personally, I think it would be great if services paid EMT-P's more if they had invested their time and money in a 2 or 4 year degree program.

But I also wonder if the perspective candidate pool would shrink too dramatically...

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Honestly, I think it is irrelevant with pay...

So basically you are saying that it doesn't matter that I don't know that because I get paid shitey so sorry if I can't offer a differential diagnoses. Pay me more and I might have decided I want to learn more?

EDIT - The pool probably should shrink WAY more dramatically. Paramedicine is quite popular here. I don't know specific numbers but as I recall in my intake it was like 1700+ peeps for 50ish spots. This is for BLS. I have no doubt it has grown in the last couple years.

Johnny save a life, with his/her "load and go" and O2 and 4x4's should be taken out of the picture. Clinicians and people who know the why's and how's and diff. dx should enter....regardless of skill set.

My opinion.

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Yes, the EMS "herd" needs to be thinned....but at the same time I don't take the attitude that the "load and go" scenario needs to be done away with in it's entirety. :lol:

There are far too many wannabes in this field and one of the quickest ways to eliminate this problem would be to increase the education requirements.

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...but at the same time I don't take the attitude that the "load and go" scenario needs to be done away with in it's entirety.

Heh, you know what I mean bro...

I love this argument....

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