Male Homosexual Partner

[WolfmanHarris]

Crotch, I've have tried incredibly hard not to call you any names or come at your character directly. That is getting harder and harder. I have tried to respect the many years in EMS that you had, but experience only lasts so long in the face of ignorance and stubbornness. I will still grant you benefit of the doubt that you're honestly seeking frank, forthright discussion of important issues and not here just to get a rise out of people. However, you are constantly and consistently undermining your own discussions by refusing to accept information that disagrees with you and opinions that don't match yours, providing outlandish hypothetical examples and claims, demonstrating arrogance and in this thread intolerance. When people attempt to point this out and encourage you to discuss at a higher level, you ignore it and continue. When people point out your actions, you fall back on righteous indignation and accuse people of name calling and personal attacks. When analysis of your debating techniques is laid out such as this you tend to ignore as much of the content as possible to latch on to either a single sentence within it, or just respond to the next response to take personal offense to instead. It would be amusing if it didn't prevent any real meaningful discussion from occurring since we're all so busy fighting your crap.

So please take this to heart as the result of a long thoughtful process and notice that it is still not "name calling." You're being an idiot.

[EMT City Administrator]

On topic please. If you don't agree with the views, debate them. If you think that the thread is useless, there are plenty of other ones that you may find interesting.

[WolfmanHarris]

My apologies Great and Powerful Admin.

Crotch, I don't think I'm clear on what your views are. I will attempt to lay them out. Please clarify where I have this incorrect.

I remember the first time that I got assigned to work with a flaming male homosexual partner. I am not a homophobe by any means, and had always thought of myself as tolerant (had an uncle and a nephew who were homosexual). The only thing bad about working with him was his phone conversations between him and his partner (especially at night). The conversations were much the same as you would expect between girlfriend and boyfriend, but it was a little creepy to hear him talking to a dude about how much he wished he was at home so that they could cuddle, kiss, etc......

You are homophobic.

the reason I bring this up is that EMS has pretty much accepted lesbians for sometime now, but the flaming males could only seem to get hired at private or hospital based services. Has that changed, or do the fire-ems organizations still discriminate against homosexual males who are not hiding in the closet ?

Is anyone else or their service homophobic?

I think homosexual males who want to work for a municipality have to hide their gayness, or they will never get hired by most Fire Departments. You are correct to say it is illegal to discriminate, but that doesnt mean it doesnt happen; employers are just smart enough to not say that was the reason someone wasnt hired.

PS : Actually it is not illegal to discriminate against homosexuals in most states.

Working for a municipality means working for a Fire Department in your mind and that FD's must be homophobic, while by omission other service models are not. No basis for this in any of your argument.

It's illegal to discriminate. Wait not it's not. It doesn't matter anyways as employers who are homophobic will place that above anything else when considering applicants.

You are totally missing the point, this isnt about sex, its about discrimination. And unfortunately EMS/Fire is still mostly run by homophobes.

Regardless of the previous inquiry, you believe that EMS is predominantly homophobic. No basis provided to back this up. No attempt to compare to population at large or other industries.

And the EEOC, nor any federal agency protects the employment rights of homosexuals. EEOC covers discrimination dealing with gender, race, religion. Handicap rights were added under the americans with disabilities act. But homosexuals do not have any protection.

There are no protections for LGBT under the law. This will than we argued with direct citations by other members of the forum. You don't accept these arguments as you do not believe that discrimination based on sex includes LGBT people.

Its not back-tracking. It is the homophobic fear among straight males that keeps the homosexuals out. If you are willing to work with them, great; but i imagine that if most men in this room would be honest, they would say they would prefer not to have a homosexual partner on the ambulance.

"I'm not homophobic I swear." Since you are a straight male and are uncomfortable with gay men, than obviously most other straight men must be. No basis in poll or in presented facts or arguments. Solution: Claim that men on this forum are not being honest.

You are missing the subtle difference between being hired or not.

It is not sexual harassment if you are not hired because you are gay. It is sexual harassment if you put vibrators in his locker or touched him inappropriately. Not hiring a woman because she is a woman is GENDER BIAS, not sexual harassment.

You don't understand the definitions of harassment or discrimination and confuse them. You also don't understand what constitutes harassment or you have chosen to rely on the most overt and extreme examples.

I am suggesting that discrimination against homosexual males is still alive and well in Fire-EMS, and I dont think we are overly concerned about righting this wrong. I imagine that if i surveyed 1000 male medics and told them we were about to hire a "gay man", but changed our mind cause we dont want those queers sharing our showers and beds, and then surveyed another 1000 and said we were about to hire a black guy, but changed our mind cause we dont want those spades sharing our showers and beds, I think I would get two dramatically different responses.

Based on your previously unsupported claims about the prevalence of discrimination on LGBT people within EMS, based on your own unresolved homophobia, you believe that the issue isn't being dealt with. Though you haven't demonstrated anything about the issue. You will now use a hypothetical situation (lacking a clear claim mind you) to illustrate something you haven't argued well to begin with.

You have at this point continued to reject evidence to the contrary on legal protection for LGBT with regards to hiring and employment. You also have failed to accept that you may be in the only member in this discussion who is not homophobic and in the minority of the members on this board. Though I can't provide proof to support the second part of that.

Again, when you cant deal with facts, attack the messenger. I am the only one brave enough to stand up for gay rights in this forum, and somehow that makes me the homophobe ?

You have provided no facts as shown above.

You have not made any attempt to stand up for LGBT rights. You have argued they have none under the law and refused to accept other interpretations of the law. That doesn't make you a champion for rights, only contrary.

Your previous expressed issues with gay men are what make you the homophobe. The entirety of these non-arguments as displayed above along with my previously mentioned issues with how you choose to argue (see above) are what lead me to the conclusion that, you clearly do not understand yourself (in this issue) or the issue. You do not understand that you're not arguing anything at all or advancing anything into the argument. You don't realize that this isn't accomplishing anything worthwhile in discussion because of this failure to argue intelligently or engage in those discussing with you. Because of all of the above premises and my previous posts, you are being an idiot. (Still no name calling)

[Don1977]

I have had 2 gay male partners and a gay female partner, never had a problem.

Very funny and entertaining. I don't see a problem with it.

[Timmy]

I’ve had male partners, I sound fem, working as a student nurse, my hair at the moment has blonde and dark red tips which I spike up, I’m pretty eccentric in a fun way and always laughing.

I’ve never had anyone make any sort of comment in regards to my orientation, when I introduce my self to patients they give me a suggestive look, raise there eyebrows “oh, you’re a MALE nurse are you… that’s different?” I’ve never had anyone refuse to work with me, no one has ever refused care or found it difficult to work with me.

I’m with different organizations in various different roles (nursing, firefighter, sports medicine, event ems ect) Some people I deal with are homophobic (mostly footballers) but I’ve never had any problems with them, I could be standing next to them when they make a stupid remark about homosexual people yet no one has ever said anything to me. I have no doubt that about what some people are thinking.

I think that’s a bit much talking to your partner in a suggestive manner over the phone, I say take it outside if your going to talk to your boyfriend or girlfriend, no one wants to hear your cushy conversation.

I’m there to do a job, I do my best, I don’t disclose my personal life to anyone and I act professional – never had a problem. There is really no issue here, if people don’t won’t to work with me then that’s there prerogative and I’m cool with it, but I’m yet to come across it. I’m sure one day someone will say something.

[Just Plain Ruff]

here we go again another dead horse to be beaten to a pulp.

We have all worked or know workers who are gay. SO WHAT. As long as the homosexual person does not touch me or talk to me inappropriately I don't give a crap if they are gay. I don't agree with their lifestyle choice but I don't treat them any differently than any other person that I work with.

Another moral dilemma on the threads.

Crotch here are the next topics of your future threads

remember the first black partner you worked with.

Remember the first mentally ill partner you worked with

remember the first hispanic partner

Remember your first pregnant partner you worked with

remember the first white anglo saxon non gay, non hispanic, non nuts partner???

We'll wait for you to make these polls

[Britt207]

My question is Why were you listening to their phone conversations to begin with?

[Don1977]

here we go again another dead horse to be beaten to a pulp.

We have all worked or know workers who are gay. SO WHAT. As long as the homosexual person does not touch me or talk to me inappropriately I don't give a crap if they are gay. I don't agree with their lifestyle choice but I don't treat them any differently than any other person that I work with.

Another moral dilemma on the threads.

Crotch here are the next topics of your future threads

remember the first black partner you worked with.

Remember the first mentally ill partner you worked with

remember the first hispanic partner

Remember your first pregnant partner you worked with

remember the first white anglo saxon non gay, non hispanic, non nuts partner???

We'll wait for you to make these polls

Well spoken Ruff..I applaude you!

[Michael]

my hair at the moment has blonde and dark red tips which I spike up, I’m pretty eccentric in a fun way and always laughing

I’m sure one day someone will say something.

I was at the mall the other day eating at the food court. I noticed an old man watching a teenager sitting next to him. The teenager had spiked hair in all different colors: green, red, orange, and blue. The old man kept staring at him. The teenager would look over and find the old man staring every time. When the teenager had had enough, he sarcastically asked, "What's the matter, old man, never done anything wild in your life?"

The old man answered in a level voice, "Got drunk once and had sex with a peacock. I was just wondering if you were my son."

:wink:

[BushyFromOz]

I was at the mall the other day eating at the food court. I noticed an old man watching a teenager sitting next to him. The teenager had spiked hair in all different colors: green, red, orange, and blue. The old man kept staring at him. The teenager would look over and find the old man staring every time. When the teenager had had enough, he sarcastically asked, "What's the matter, old man, never done anything wild in your life?"

The old man answered in a level voice, "Got drunk once and had sex with a peacock. I was just wondering if you were my son."

:wink:

Oh sweet mother of god!! Thats the funniest thing i have heard in weeks:D:D:D:D