No Sleep 24's

[Ironvic]

I've worked for both good and bad services. By far the worst was one in Los Angeles that had us working a day car 12 hours a day, 5 days a week-0700 to 1900 with mandatory OT if an emergent call came in before you could make it back to the barn. We ran first-in in South Central L.A. to take some pressure off the 24 hour crews and it was some of the most brutal EMS experience imaginable, then it got worse. Some pencil head in personnel decided that because we were on a 60 hour work week at $2.57 per hour, the company could get an extra day of work from us for 'free' by rescheduling us on a 10 hour workday at 6 days per week with Sundays off. It went from brutal to inhumane. My outlook became grey, then black. I hated all patients, especially suicides and druggies. I was always angry, more than happy to duke it out with any violent mental health PT who went off on me in back. I burned out and quit, then went into the fire service, finally walking away from it all after 15 years of service. 15 years later, I returned.

Now I work part-time for a really nice company. They do not allow anyone to work more than a 36 hour shift and frown on that as well. 24 hour shifts are the norm and part-timers can sign on to cover 1/2 shifts or only work special events or long distance transfers. That really helps the full-timers. I see EMS from a more compassionate viewpoint and realized I was so angry for so many years because a lot of that compassion was stolen from me through burnout and constant fatigue under dangerous ghetto conditions. I read a book for Vietnam veternas suffering from PTSD and for the first time saw me. I forgave myself for growing to hate the work I loved. After figuring it all out for myself, the nightmares finally left and I could begin thinking about enrolling in EMT school again a couple of years later.

Nowadays I feel priviliged that God gave me the opportunity to do the work I love again and serve in both private and Fire/EMS services. When my volunteer pager goes off and I'm responding to the station to jump on the ambulance, I feel like I'm finally back home after a long period of recuperation.

So you guys hang in there. Take time to do something else if you need to get out. The job will always be there when you're ready to come back.

[Guest]

Ironvic, Welcome back brother.'.

I work 24 hrs shifts , we are allowed to sleep as long as station duties are done and trucks ready to roll. if we get really busy or have a bad call and the need to leave arises, all that needs to be done is a word to the supervisor and the arrangements are made. working conditions are not bad and as far as burn out, they are very good at recognizing it and working on fixing the problems before they are out of control

[retired_medic61]

I was a shift supervisor on a 24 hour shift. Most of the shifts were sleepless. I allowed my crews to sleep as long as the trucks were checked off & cleaned and the station duties were done.

Early in my career I got off at 6am and most of the time I did not sleep during the day but rather went to bed early the following evening. Later in my EMS career I found it increasingly difficult to avoid taking a nap at some point the next day since as a supervisor I did not get to sleep much during my shift. The problem with sleeping the next day is that I could not get to sleep at night even on my four days off.

After 10 years, it really started to take a toll on me.

[Dsmittty911]

I know when I was doing my clinical rotations I was talking to the charge nurse on my L and D rotation. I'd been up for 16 hours working a rotation in the ER and then went to L & D. She stated that if I were paid employee she would have to send me home at 20 hours for that day. She stated that it was a law no more than 20 hours in one day. She said as it was if I observed my objective for that rotation (observe natural birth) then she was sending me packing and would give me credit for rest of time. As far as on the bus the service here has several different shifts. Anything from 8 to 48 hour shifts. I was riding on 12 hour night shifts 1730 to 0530. If not on run we could sleep as long as radio woke us up (which seemed to happen very regularly LOL)

[Ridryder 911]

Actually there are Doc's that work 24 hours shifts as well... albeit in rural areas. I believe what your L & D was going by was the rule for nurses (some state boards prohibit > 20 hr) and residents. They used to work those poor guys to death... with several hour of shifts and studies without a break.. thank God some of that has passed, lot better than it used to be. It only took hundred years and several thousands of lives to change it.

Most of the EMS around here still does 24 hr shifts.. although as we increase our volume it is getting more difficult. I still rather have a 24, if I can grab some winks of sleep and down time, than some other type of shifts. I like my 10 days a month

Be safe,

R/R 911

[strippel]

That is why we don't do 24s.

We have up to 16 hour shifts (maximum, 40 hour work week), and you must have 8 hour off between shifts, enforced. Even if you are working OT. It is not looked upon well if you are coming to work from another job.

We are able to rest anytime, as long as the truck is clean, stocked, and paperwork is done.

There were other services nearby that did 24s, and they now have stopped. Too many tired providers, and poor quality care.

[emtkelley]

At the hospital I worked at, we were so short staffed that we would sneak a nap in the sups office on midnight shifts if we got stuck with a double. Or we would go out to the ambulance and take a power nap. Many of us worked a second job as well so we were all rather dead on our feet most of the time. Depending on how I was scheduled, I would work my other job until 10pm, go into the hospital, work until 7am, turn around and work my other job after the hospital and only one time did I have to return to the hospital. Somehow I took a shower and managed a change of clothes but it got dicey sometimes. I would be gone from home for a few days many times. I learned to catch sleep when I could and we would take turns playing lookout while the other slept. If our employer wasn't going to take care of us, we would take care of each other.

I look back at how reckless I was and haven't done it since. I was a danger to my patients, my partner and myself. Employers need to realize that when people need to shut their eyes for a bit, that they aren't sluffing off, they are in need of some sleep, no matter how they get it. What is the harm in relaxing a bit after rig check and clearing your head with a little shut-eye if you need it?

[Just Plain Ruff]

An ambualance service I used to work for had several incidents where the crews were working 24-72 hour shifts. This was about 20 years ago or so but after several of their drivers either were involved in accidents or they took out parked cars and a telephone pole the service wised up and maxxed their shifts to 14 hours in a given 24 period.

Making someone work a 24 and not allow them sleep is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I know because I've been involved in one lawsuit due to lack of sleep. I was the medic on the truck and my partner and I had been up 19 hours straight before running a red light and creaming a small 4 door car. My driver fell asleep. It was not fun nor pretty and we lost.

[LAEMTICHIC22]

[/font:7badb4b209] i am very lucky in that i work for a 4p-4p service

there are many times that we only get 2-3 hrs of sleep. like you i have a child at home( 4yrs) and this is sometimes very hard..... luckily during the day at work we are allowed to take naps if we make 2 runs after midnight

perhaps you should talk to your supervisor and explain that this lack of sleep is not healthy let alone dangerous to the crews.. you never know they may be willing to raise the 10pm bedtime to sometime earlier or even allow you to go to bed when you want like we are

[Ghettomedic351]

Unfortunately sounds like a matter of time till someone gets killed in an accident, be it the patient or the crew. Fatigue is not conducive to good EMS and if I were you I would tell my closest family member what is going on so when an accident occurs and you end up dead or disabled to retain an attorney and sue the pants off of this company.