Strictly Drivers!

[ambulancechick]

I am curious about this. My company has started hiring Joe Blow off the streets with no know how to be drivers. Their thought is that they just need a medic and a driver to deliver patient care and get to the hospital. In my opinion it is not right. Does anyone know is that even legal? And would you want to be to or from a call by a non-ems partner to and from a call?

[spenac]

Texas requires two EMS certified people per ambulance except for a short term variance if a shortage occurs. My part time job is under one and they have untrained drivers. I just refuse to allow them to drive with L&S or to exceed speed limits. IMHO it causes patients to suffer when organizations refuse to pay to properly staff an ambulance.

Check your state EMS office to see if legal there.

[Amhet1]

Wow, the only state I can think of still in the '70s is NJ..... I think the rest of them require a minimum of 2 basics. I dont think even an MFR even qualifies in most states. I know Michigan did away with the "Ambulance Attendant" certificate back in the 80s. FL, CO, MI, and the military all require at least 2 EMT-Bs

Most (if not all) will have their code or enacting legislation online. You can do a lexis searh for your state.

Oh, I see youre in Louisianna.... so much for finding any sort of legislation there. I think they just took Acadians business model and said thats the law. I looked at possibly moving to LA when I retired and liked what I saw at Acadian. I decided to stay in the FL panhandle instead. After the debacle following Katrina, Im glad I stayed here. (Withholding political comments).

[Chief1C]

Louisiana EMS has another one of those not-so-easy to navigate websites.

I took this from The State of Louisiana,

Title 40, Chapter 5, Part VII, Subpart C, Paragraph 1235

A.(1) No person or individual shall conduct, maintain, or operate an ambulance on any street, alley, or public way or place in the state unless the ambulance is staffed with a minimum of two persons, one of whom shall be a certified emergency medical technician.

(2)(a) No person or individual shall provide services in any capacity on any ambulance unless he is a certified first responder, a certified emergency medical technician, a licensed registered or practical nurse, or a physician.

[VentMedic]

FL, CO, MI, and the military all require at least 2 EMT-Bs

Are you sure about that in Florida?

Florida:

(7)(a) Each permitted basic life support

ambulance not specifically exempted from

this part, when transporting a person who

is sick, injured, wounded, incapacitated, or

helpless, must be occupied by at least two

persons: one patient attendant who is a

certified emergency medical technician,

certified paramedic, or licensed physician;

and one ambulance driver who meets the

requirements of s. 401.281. This paragraph

does not apply to interfacility transfers

governed by s. 401.252(1).

( Each permitted advanced life support

ambulance not specifically exempted from

this part, when transporting a person who

is sick, injured, wounded, incapacitated, or

helpless, must be occupied by at least two

persons: one who is a certified paramedic

or licensed physician; and one who is a

certified emergency medical technician,

certified paramedic, or licensed physician

who also meets the requirements of s.

401.281 for drivers. The person with the

highest medical certifications shall be in

charge of patient care. This paragraph does

not apply to interfacility transfers governed

by s. 401.252(1).

401.252 Interfacility transfer.--

(1) A licensed basic or advanced life

support ambulance service may conduct

interfacility transfers in a permitted

ambulance, using a registered nurse in

place of an emergency medical technician

or paramedic

http://www.doh.state.fl.us/DEMO/EMS/RulesS...R401-3-2008.pdf

[JPINFV]

Interesting. As a strict reading, it appears that CCT units cant utilize RTs. The only loop hole that I can see would be if the RT was also an EMT-B, but that would throw in a lot of scope of practice questions since he is functioning as both an EMT and a RT.

[VentMedic]

Interesting. As a strict reading, it appears that CCT units cant utilize RTs. The only loop hole that I can see would be if the RT was also an EMT-B, but that would throw in a lot of scope of practice questions since he is functioning as both an EMT and a RT.

For the type of patients an RRT's presence is going to be required, an RN or MD will probably go along also. If just an RRT goes with a subacute trach patient because the EMT is not allowed to do invasive suctioning, the EMT will also be there. The RRT will probably make sure of that because there will be lifting and other manual labor chores the EMT can do to assist the RRT. RRTs rarely want to leave the comforts of the ICU unless they work for a progressive Flight program or Specialty transport. Their specialty is Critical Care.

There are many other professionals that could also go such as a perfusionist and PA which didn't get mentioned. Some statutes do need updating.

I believe in California, CCT is EMT-B and RN in some areas. The EMT-B has an expanded scope of "advanced equipment setting up".

If an ambulance is responding to a 911 scene call, then, yes, the equivalent of EMT-B should be a requirement. We still make our Flight RNs get their EMT-B in Florida. After that they can challenge the Paramedic exam if they wish but rarely is it needed unless they want to go with the FD or county HEMS. PAs and Dentists can also challenge the Paramedic exam in Florida. So there are ways to find the loopholes.

There are a lot of overlapping training and education in other professions that meet or exceed the EMT-B and EMT-P but don't get recognized as such. Even some industrial and coal mine workers get the equivalent or more of the EMT-B as part of their job orientation but have no desire to work on an ambulance even if they do test. Degreed Athletics Trainers and Exercise Physiologists are other examples.

[ccmedoc]

Wow, the only state I can think of still in the '70s is NJ..... I think the rest of them require a minimum of 2 basics. I dont think even an MFR even qualifies in most states. I know Michigan did away with the "Ambulance Attendant" certificate back in the 80s. FL, CO, MI, and the military all require at least 2 EMT-Bs..

The minimum requirement in Michigan is one MFR and one EMT-B..no such thing as an ambulance driver anymore, although the MFR is as close as you can get in any state..not worth the paper the cert is printed on..medically wise anyhow (opinion)..

If a medic is on board with an MFR..the ambulance is basic..not ALS..I think this is a bit crazy, but that is the law..

[Amhet1]

"Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:32 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amhet1 wrote:

FL, CO, MI, and the military all require at least 2 EMT-Bs

Are you sure about that in Florida?

Florida:

(7)(a) Each permitted basic life support

ambulance not specifically exempted from

this part, when transporting a person who

is sick, injured, wounded, incapacitated, or

helpless, must be occupied by at least two

persons: one patient attendant who is a

certified emergency medical technician,

certified paramedic, or licensed physician;

and one ambulance driver who meets the

requirements of s. 401.281. This paragraph

does not apply to interfacility transfers

governed by s. 401.252(1). "

401.281 Drivers.--

(1) Each licensee is responsible for assuring that its vehicles are driven only by trained, experienced, and otherwise qualified personnel. The licensee must, at a minimum, document that each of its drivers:

(a) Is at least 18 years of age;

( Certifies under oath that he or she is not addicted to alcohol or any controlled substance;

© Certifies under oath that he or she is free from any physical or mental defect or disease that might impair his or her ability to drive an ambulance;

(d) Has not, within the past 3 years, been convicted of reckless driving or driving under the influence of alcohol or controlled substances and has not had a driver's license suspended under the point system provided for in chapter 322;

(e) Possesses a valid driver's license issued under chapter 322, is trained in the safe operation of emergency vehicles, and has completed an emergency vehicle operator's course or the reasonable equivalent as approved by the department; however, this paragraph applies only to a driver of a land vehicle;

(f) Possesses a valid American Red Cross or National Safety Council standard first aid course card or its equivalent; and

(g) Possesses a valid American Red Cross or American Heart Association cardiopulmonary resuscitation card.

(2) The department shall periodically inspect licensees for verification of compliance with this section. Services that are unable to verify compliance are subject to disciplinary action as provided in this part.

I stand corrected. I thought this was the 21st century and we got past "ambulance drivers".

[VentMedic]

I stand corrected. I thought this was the 21st century and we got past "ambulance drivers".

Yeah and I'm still trying to get past the part about "700 hours required" for Paramedic "training" 30+ years later.

I did enjoy some of the "professional" ambulance drivers I've had in the past as partners. My favorite was a Garbage truck driver who knew every alley and could lift both the patient and stretcher by himself. There were also cab drivers, some from Miami, Cuba and NYC. Another one of my favorite drivers was a retired NYC bus driver. There were also retired cops who wanted to still play with the L/S as well. Some were truly professional in their driving skills. We didn't start having a lot of accidents within the company until we started using 2 certified EMT(P)s.