vollys or payed

[mstovall]

I think this will vary from area to area. Heck in my own county there are some districts who have a better volunteer than paid crew, while others have a more passionate paid crew. The volunteers here get more training that the paid crews, and that is a shame. In most fire districts, you get several vols to help. They range in skill level from first responder to paramedic. Many are also paid professionals and vol. in the county (rural) where the paid crew may be 15-20 mins away. The vols average response time is in route < 2 mins and on scene < 5 mins. The first paid will get on scene with an average of 7-8 min response time. Now if the same guys are vol. on their days off, are they more passionate then than when they are paid? I don't think so. They just care about their neighbor enough not to sit around when they are in need. They respond with equal skill whether they are on the clock or not.

I love it when I can beat the paid crews and vols in response time, but that happens very little. As for a patient, I would feel better knowing someone is there. I also like the feed back from the scene so I know what to take in. Heck, many-a-time they have the patient packaged, lines started, airways in, monitor on and we can just load and go.

I think that passion is not the question one should ask, it is who delivers the life saving skills needed the quickest. Again this will depend on the area you live in.

My biggest question is what are we to think of the counties that are too poor to have a FT crew (fire or medical). One county near me has paid-on-call, but this is a greatly reduced fee (I think it comes out to be about $2/hr), unless they are making a run.

It is hard to make an assumption that would be correct for the whole country, let alone many states.

JMHO,

Michael

[Chief1C]

Obviously the topic was started to cause a pissing match. Rather than seeing the same old, "we're better than you" arguments, I expected links to the other two hundred topics that ended with similar results.

[emt322632]

Passion is a moot point when we're dealing with people's lives. It's good to have someone that loves their job, and loves doing what they're doing, but it's even better if that person who loves their job also has the knowledge and skills to help my mother when her heart gives out.

Volunteers for the most part have little to no accountability for their actions. From my experience, most feel that increased educational requirements are nothing but a chore and serve no purpose. If they make a mistake in patient care that could be detrimental to the patient, oh well lesson learned.

Paid is the way to go.

[sevenball]

Passion is not measured in the amount of dollars you get paid, rather the force that drives you to excel. To question ones passion is to say that you have gained an intimate view, and have a deep knowledge into another persons psyche. So, to me, this posting is solely to invoke argument. If it's validation from the EMS community you seek, you have it. To enter into a field with little or no pay, and even less acknowledgement, is validation that you are passionate about your work. Kudos, carry on regardless of your compensation.

[butterfly]

volly they do it to help they are not doing it for a check like the the paid person is.

[Chief1C]

volly they do it to help they are not doing it for a check like the the paid person is.

No, they usually do it because back in the day, funeral homes couldn't keep up with federal standards. Or towns just didn't have an ambulance, and nobody wanted to do it; so groups of citizens got together and formed rescue squads, or first aid crews, etc. A lot of good came out of that, it's not all bad, it just depends on how things work in each individual town. Some people have done it, hated it; or got burned out and moved on; or just don't understand how it works. I don't have the patience to explain it.

Anyhoo, people created ambulance services so their towns, no matter how big; or how dinky, were not so far from other services. Or maybe they thought they could do better, than what was already in place.

Today, either municipalities won't foot the bill; or there are so many services, that everyone couldn't go paid because they wouldn't bring in enough cash. If it were planned well, and you replaced every three or four services with two staffed ambulances; it could probably be pull off. But there is no way to make every service paid, they'd go bankrupt too soon after. A few i.e. hundred or thousand; would have to be dissolved. Smaller areas don't need 10 ambo's; larger areas need 20. As many years as EMS has existed, it will take twice as many, to solve all of it's problems.

I believe the solution is consolidation.

[Cookie]

Volunteers for the most part have little to no accountability for their actions. From my experience, most feel that increased educational requirements are nothing but a chore and serve no purpose. If they make a mistake in patient care that could be detrimental to the patient, oh well lesson learned.

I do not know about where you live, but where I live volunteers are held accountable for all our actions or lack there of. Increased educational requirements for us are a necessary part of what we do, they do serve a purpose and we take it very seriously when it comes to patient care. After all the patient is our top priority and we do take that extremely seriously from the time the call is made till we hand the patient over to the hospital.

[Asysin2leads]

Ever notice the posts that say "volunteer" are the ones with the glaring grammatical and spelling errors? I wonder why that is.

Today I had a near syncopal episode in the middle of the emergency room due to hypovolemia secondary to dehydration from running around in our current heat wave. And when I say near syncopal episode, I don't mean, oh, I felt a little faint, I mean the color started to drain from the room, sparkles started to creep in to my peripheral vision but because I recognized what was about to happen, I sat down on the floor rather than than passing out. My blood pressure was 80/40. They did a 12 lead to make sure I wasn't having a heart attack I was so pale. I got 2 liters of fluid and the rest of the day off.

Maybe my passion is lacking. But I think my dedication trumps any vollie any day of the week.

[Amhet1]

pro·fes·sion·al Audio Help /prəˈfɛʃənl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-fesh-uh-nl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.

3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.

4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.

5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.

6. making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”

7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.

8. of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.

9. done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.

–noun 10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.

11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.

12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.

13. a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

vol·un·teer Audio Help (vŏl'ən-tîr') Pronunciation Key

n.

A person who performs or offers to perform a service voluntarily: an information booth staffed by volunteers; hospital volunteers.

Law

A person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily.

A person who holds property under a deed made without consideration.

Botany A cultivated plant growing from self-sown or accidentally dropped seed.

adj.

Being, consisting of, or done by volunteers: volunteer firefighters; volunteer tutoring.

Botany Growing from self-sown or accidentally dropped seed. Used of a cultivated plant or crop.

pas·sion Audio Help /ˈpæʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pash-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. any powerful or compelling emotion or feeling, as love or hate.

2. strong amorous feeling or desire; love; ardor.

3. strong sexual desire; lust.

4. an instance or experience of strong love or sexual desire.

5. a person toward whom one feels strong love or sexual desire.

6. a strong or extravagant fondness, enthusiasm, or desire for anything: a passion for music.

7. the object of such a fondness or desire: Accuracy became a passion with him.

8. an outburst of strong emotion or feeling: He suddenly broke into a passion of bitter words.

9. violent anger.

10. the state of being acted upon or affected by something external, esp. something alien to one's nature or one's customary behavior (contrasted with action).

11. (often initial capital letter) Theology. a. the sufferings of Christ on the cross or His sufferings subsequent to the Last Supper.

b. the narrative of Christ's sufferings as recorded in the Gospels.

12. Archaic. the sufferings of a martyr.

Is a volunteer fireman any less of a fireman than one that does it full time? Does fire training differ between a volunteer and a professional fireman? Does our training differ between volunteer EMS and full-time? We have a fixed set of training requirements. We have standards that we have to maintain in CEUs, refreshers, training, and specific skill sets. I have spent time as a volunteer and full-time. I have seen the differences.

The differences are many, but the bottom line comes down to experience. Someone with 200 runs has a different mindset than someone with 2000 or 20,000. Full-timers take a paid position in their town because it fits their lifestyle, the pay meets their needs, and hopefully doing what they enjoy doing. Volunteers live in BFE and have an interest in helping their family, freinds and community. They also may be looking at career opportunities. They voluntarily go thru the same training, meet the same standards, go thru the same things that full-time do, and do it often on their own dime and time.

The term "passion" is the overriding factor in the discussion. When a volunteer loses the passion for EMS, they can just walk away. A full-time person may not have the chance to "just walk away" per se. The full-time person has the risk of burn out where a volunteer has little risk of it. Personally, when someone loses interest and stops learning, they are no longer an asset and may want to look for a new profession.

If I still lived in BFE, would I still have the "passion" to continue to volunteer after 30 years? Probably not. Do i still want to spend hours in the back of an ambulance or sucking deisel exhaust... Not if I can avoid it. I have found that I enjoy quality analysis and process improvement. I enjoyed my time as a volunteer and loved the people I worked with. I cant say that about the staffs of some of the full-time services Ive rode with. It may have been the folks I worked with.

The question of who has more passion is truely mute.

For those with strong opinions either way needs to walk in the others boots. I want to send a challenge. If you're full-time, "adopt" a volunteer service and share your experience and knowledge. Help them to become the medics you think they should be. Volunteers, go find a FT service and get some ride time with them. See what other services do and how they do things. Pick the medics brain for tips and tricks.

[Amhet1]

"But I think my dedication trumps any vollie any day of the week."

Really? You do this for no pay, hours away from freinds and family for education, training, runs, and spend more out of pocket than you make in any stipend you might get for taking the calls?

If you had true dedication, you would have taken yourself out of service.... a dead medic saves nobody.