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B.C. new EMR-ACP through JIBC


bosc

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Hello,

It is my understanding that RN/RT education should cover the electives (i.e. Bio...ect...) and the prehospital care foundation modules cover areas of weakness before the ACP program starts (i.e. Introduction to Paramedic Practice 111).

That way, for example, a RT who has never seen that back of an ambulance won't be too lost on clinicals.

Personally, I am pleased with the science courses needed. Plus, the option for allied health professionals. It is an option I am planning to do.

However, I do feel bad for people who have spent a great deal of time and money to become a PCP when in hind sight taking an EMR course and some university credits would have been better. =(

For what it is worth, I feel that ACP should be the gold standard in most urban/suburban and rural areas. With a decent 3 year college/university level training program you should have professional ACP by the end of it all. Heck, you can take a zero-to-hero for a RT or a RN. Why not for a ACP?

David

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Don't feel too bad for the PCP's Dave. Since this last set of changes I do actually get credit for it. I won't have to take any of the courses like "Introduction to Paramedic Practise" that everyone else has to and I will enter with the same group of university credits (A&P, Pharmacology etc.). The diversity in backgrounds this will introduce into the field is actually going to be a positive change. Imagine how great it's going to be to have a RT for a partner on a SOB call. I think this has the potential to be a big step in the right direction for paramedic practise in BC.

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A bit confused with some of these BC abbreviations ?

PLAR ? In the context used it means licensed PCP's will be given recognition for prior learning (ie. PCP's don't have to do these courses)

TRU-OL ? Thompson Rivers University Open Learning (These courses can be taken by distance education)

And are EMRs allowed to start lines ? or just maybe I am reading this wrong ? EMRs absolutely can not start lines. I think the implication is that allied health professionals who do not already do IV access will have to complete a course on IV cannulation.

And this RN/RT thing ... is that counted towards equivlency at the ACP level, sans a couple of courses, kinda odd that oxygen therapy be included for RRTs ? I'm not sure how this is meant to work. I think RN/RT students will be given credit for parts of the program based on prior learning.

cheers

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For what it is worth, I feel that ACP should be the gold standard in most urban/suburban and rural areas. With a decent 3 year college/university level training program you should have professional ACP by the end of it all. Heck, you can take a zero-to-hero for a RT or a RN. Why not for a ACP?

Agreed: but the "zero to hero" so lets loose that EMSism svp .... better decribed as a good educational background in order to make proper diagnosis, implementing viable treatment options based on good medical practice and constantly reevaluated guidelines.

Yea ok so its a bit "wordy" :oops:

There has always been this educational attitude in the well recognised health disiplines ... perhaps it is time we as EMS providers change the silly stepping stone concept to come in line with other professionals, odd too but no other disipline(s) practices this very negative old school concept.

Thanks rock_shoes for the abbreviations and translation, I am just learning to speak B.Columbian ... I wonder if one would be in advantaged position if they held BOTH RRT and REMT-P from another province, that in regards to reciprocity? Heck, I think there is only 5 of us across Canada ... that I know of.

ps RRT(s) are nationally recognised just in passing, unlike Paramedics, RRTs write National accepted exams to practice ...... maybe some day .... but good luck with that as ACoP have just anounced "diversion" from involvement with PAC ... another dumb ass move and quite typical of ACoP these days ... sheesh.

cheers

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  • 4 weeks later...

The JI has been trying and failing to produce a product that is a) Nationally recognized and B) worthwhile to the JI. They care not about the pass/fail rates. They want your money. PERIOD!

In BC we have ACP and PCP that will never change. In my opinion you need to be able to do an ambulance call before you even should consider training to the ACP level and trust me there are many PCP's who can but there are also many that can't. ACP is not just the glam of big drugs, tubes and fancy monitors. It is being able to run a call. Quarterback it if you will. To know what is appropriate treatment and the risk vs benefit of doing so. ACP is not for everyone and quite frankly not everyone is for ACP.

PCP's in BC have a pretty big tool kit already and go to EVERY type of call. ACP here is targeted to the Charlie/Delta level AMPDS calls and in most cases don't do squat because they aren't required. PCP's are gaining new treatments, protocols and tools all the time.

The JI had the monopoly in BC for a long time. Now they have competition both in BC and from other institutions in other Provinces. With the laws deregulating inter-provincial trade, it is now possible for anyone with a License and training from outside of BC to come and simply write an exam and take some basic training in operational matters to work for BCAS. The JI is scared of these facts and wants to make their program more enticing. Lowering the standards for enrollment is one way.

I am a PCP and I am proud!

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I will have to agree with the comments on the JI for sure, I agree that if you are a PCP it should be recongnized towards ACP. Personally I have been lucky and in that I haven't had to put out the money for these programs that others have had to do.

BCAS has never been known for their organizational skills heres an example of that. I started with OFA3 like many with over 10 yrs experience. BCAS decides they need to upgrade the medics they have and started the CME (i think thats what it was called). You did a written test and then it was decided what level of this program you would start at. For family and personal reasons I was unable to attend the courses as they were off island and everyother weekend. I watch two very smart and able paramedics turn into nervouse and bumbling idiots.(lack of better wording) They did this for approx 6 months and through the stress and emotion they passed with flying colors. They did this all in vein as a year later here came the PCP program and everything they had endured was wasted as they still had to pass the exams for the PCP to continue working. I did the one and only PCP course that was in our community and i worked hard at the book learning, i would read while cooking, bathing ect. It was tough as it wasn't an instructor led course, it was me taking the time to learn and then have someone tell me a month later if i got it right or not.(I am very proud of myself in my course as I was 1 of 3 in a class of 17 that passed this clean and without any remedials) Personally I do not learn well in a school setting I am someone that learns from experience and actually doing the task. I also learn very well from my mistakes and I have made a few. As for taking away the ability for someone to learn from their own experience and that of others to me is wrong. In all levels of the medical system you have levels that you have to complete before you go any higher for example you are a resident before you are a dr. I think that just because you are book smart dosn't mean you should be able to go to the highest level of whatever you are trying to accomplish. I would not be the paramedic I am today without the last 13 years of experience I have under my belt. Pt care starts from the minute you open your mouth to the patient and if you dont have the ability to communicate with your patient then you shouldn't be here, you do not learn that skill in school you learn it in the field. So yes I think there should be levels to achive on your way to the top.

Now I know BOSC and I have listened to the frustrations that he has had to try and get better training for himself and others. Once he can achive getting into an ACP program this young man will be a very big asset for any community he choses to make his home. I hope you all are able in your careers to get to were you want to go and good luck in your endevors.

Happy and like Al im proud to be a PCP

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To Al and Happiness:

Ok ... an old communications Prof once said to me:

If you continue to think the way you have always though ... you will continue to get what you have always got.

Question : IS IT ENOUGH ?

(ps for your patients !)

Oh Yes I too have climbed up the single rungs of the ladder, St Johns, Instructor, Industrial C, B, A, AA, EMT-A then on to a real ALS Paramedic and mentored and supervised along the way in Edmonton with the intoduction of an ALS service and implimenting some of the best in instructors in N. A. (we were ahead of our time, and Bill Coghill (isourus) acomplished this, using ..... ALS Paramedics from Chicogo, New York, Tuson, and Texas in the early 90s ... I have been a lucky man bottom line, as well I persued a few other enhanced venues too ... that said:

We must be proud of what we have accomplished (so far) the forefathers/mothers and for Mo Fo' ers (ok got to throw in some ha ha ) of what we have accomplished ... BUT we must accept that this ladder "effect" is something we have to overcome besides no MD resident is unsupervised unless by a Fellow or a Chief Resident , and no matter just what the students "learning type" it may be, internet, an audible learner, a visual learner, or interactive with an instuctor lecturing.

There is no "Zero to Hero" ... there is only one goal .... to advance the profession and yes have certianly have GREAT pride in the PCP level (you should).. but never forget this :

(ps I bet $$$ Dust will agree) The more you learn the more you don't know.

AND not only are you worth any other public safety officer wages ... YOU in BC are worth the investment of further EDUCATION to provide improved services to yor patients .... So STAND YOUR GROUND !

cheers

ps While recently improving my personal understanding of LBBB and silent MI ... I would be most interested in promoting improved education at the JI ... contact PM any time.

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Now I know BOSC and I have listened to the frustrations that he has had to try and get better training for himself and others. Once he can achive getting into an ACP program this young man will be a very big asset for any community he choses to make his home.

Pre-empitive posting of Happiness' very nice comments there.

She even bought me Coffee this morning!

You so sweet Happiness.

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