Rig staffed with Medic and EMT

[Asysin2leads]

I've never understood the whole fireman worship thing. When I say I don't understand it, I mean, I really don't, I don't understand the people who prostrate themselves to be liked by the firemen. Sure, I liked riding on the fire engine as a kid... got to do it in kindergarten, I even met Sparky the firedog. I used to watch the fire engines go by from my grandmother's window, even.

But, in the end, the whole mysticism and magic that people have for it was just lost on me, I guess. I always saw it as a job, a very important one, a very dangerous one, but at the end of the day still a job. I can understand kissing up to say, a CEO, or maybe a powerful politician, but the ones in EMS who kiss up and act all... well, you know, to firemen, I just never quite got it.

It this behavior that fuels the egos in the fire service that we all know and loathe, however. Tell someone they are a hero enough times, and sure enough they'll start to believe it. I'm waiting for the FDNY newsletter to tell us that the firemen have cured cancer or landed on the moon. I'm sure its either this or next months article.

[Flasurfbum]

gaelicfirefighter;

That was one of the most well articulated, and thoughtful posts on this subject that I have read. Thank you for your insight to your cit and its workings. I have much for CFD Jakes. We have a former CFD FF on my dept, and he is an incredible asset to draw information from.

I have worked in a cit (Atlantic City) where, for the most part, all 3 services (ACPD, ACFD, and Exceptional Medical Transportation who had AC EMS Contract) got along well. ACFD responded to ALS calls outside of casinos, and their FFs had a good grasp of BLS skills. We could arrive to an Engine Co. who had (accurate!) vitals, and they were working on a pt hx, and meds by the time we arrived.

The system I am a Medic student in is well, a mess.

Fire has pwned EMS. Hardcore. The County F/R is the only ones who can transport prehospital pts, and lawsuits have been filed to stop that.

They also have all ALS Engines, and FORCE all new hires to become Medics within a year, or be terminated.

I was in class with their latest group, and they b*tched, whined, complained, and some days just slept through class. They scrape by the skin of their teeth, and one day, will be riding the Rescue that MY family could be requesting. I ended up switching classes just so I could escape their amateurism.

We never can really get along until we fully understand each others jobs, and appreciate what we do. Sure, you may work where the FD is a bunch of beer swilling, redneck slobs who have more blinkys in their POV then the latest Galls rag has, but don't ASSume that all Firemen are like that.

We are, for the most part, a hardworking group, who trains constantly. On shift, during conferences, and across the country. Your perception of us may be a lazy bunch who sits in recliners, or sleeps all day. That is usually the "retirement house", where the Crusties spend their last few years on da job. They have earned not waking up 7 times after midnight. They are the ones who have served their time on the line, and are passing what they know to us young bucks.

I took a leave of absence from this board. I came back a different person, with more respect for my fellow EMS providers.

All I ask is that you respect my fellow firemen in the manner that you wish to be treated. We truly are a Brotherhood, and will come to the defense of one another at a moments notice, no questions asked.

[Dustdevil]

I have made no secret to the fact that I work in for a private service, we run both basic/basic(mostly for transfers to and from SNF) and medic/basic trucks. My other question is what about people like me who have no interest in FF, where do I go to prep myself for medic school if everyone were to switch to dual medic trucks.

Is that a serious question?

How about COLLEGE? That's the logical choice, isn't it? You think you're getting something of value out of dialysis transports that is more important than Anatomy & Physiology? You'd be wrong.

Driving an ambulance is not an educational preparation. It's just a job. You want educational preparation? Go to college.

[mshow00]

Is that a serious question?

How about COLLEGE? That's the logical choice, isn't it? You think you're getting something of value out of dialysis transports that is more important than Anatomy & Physiology? You'd be wrong.

Driving an ambulance is not an educational preparation. It's just a job. You want educational preparation? Go to college.

I think I miscommunicated my question, I have spent a year on a BLS truck (honing my paperwork and assessment skills on my own with impute from other medics I trust). I have been working on and off an ALS truck for three of four months, and spent the last two months or so working full time on an ALS truck. My paramedic class will start in May and my class is a year long. I have already started to pick up on several different things like basic reading of ECGs both 3 and 12 leads, further tweaking of my assessment and interacting skills and the such. My point was IF everyone went to dual medic trucks, I would be missing all the experience I have gained to this point. I hear one of my co-workers say "A good basic will always save a medic's a**" and he is a medic that has been in the field for years.

[JakeEMTP]

My point was IF everyone went to dual medic trucks, I would be missing all the experience I have gained to this point. I hear one of my co-workers say "A good basic will always save a medic's a**" and he is a medic that has been in the field for years.

With all due respect, what experience have you gained? You should have been observing only which is nothing compared to doing. Without the fundamental education, do you even understand what you witnessed? This is not a slam on you so don't take it that way.

It is the opinion of many experienced providers here that you gain little if any experience working BLS and since your function on a medic/basic ambulance is primarily to drive, your exposure is limited to the first few minutes of patient care. Learning to read 3 and 12 leads without knowing what you are looking at is futile. ANYONE can see ST elevation. What about blocks or rhythm interpretation?

I commend you for going to medic school. You will get plenty of experience during clinical time AFTER you have the fundamental education to begin to understand what the 12 lead means.

As for your partners ludicrous statement, I will refrain from commenting as I don't think it warrants the bandwidth.

[Dustdevil]

My point was IF everyone went to dual medic trucks, I would be missing all the experience I have gained to this point. I hear one of my co-workers say "A good basic will always save a medic's a**" and he is a medic that has been in the field for years.

You communicated your question perfectly clear, Mike. You are respected here as an excellent communicator. But, as Jake pointed out, your theory is a mistaken one. The belief that basic experience is a good preparation for paramedic school is the biggest myth in EMS education. It's a lie. It is simply and completely bogus. And it's probably the most discussed topic at EMT City, so I'm a little surprised that you have not picked up on it yet. The simple fact is that you don't need it, and more likely than not, it makes success in paramedic school more difficult, not easier. Every experienced educator here will tell you that.

Back to the original answer to your question, have you taken college Anatomy & Physiology yet? What about Algebra, Chemistry, Microbiology, Psychology, Developmental Psychology, Abnormal Psychology, Physics, and Sociology? If you have, excellent! You're ready for the next step. But if you haven't, then either you are getting some really shitty advice from the medics you trust, or else you just really don't care about being prepared for medic school, or being the very best that you can be.

Sure, working as a basic is a lot more fun than sitting through an Anatomy & Physiology course. And they don't let you play with the siren in Psychology class. But those are absolutely the BEST preparation for medic school that there is. And, in fact, if your school doesn't require them BEFORE entering the class, then your school sucks. There is NOTHING you will pick up working as a basic that contributes any significant element to your success as a paramedic student. But we don't have enough bandwidth here to list all the reasons it is bad for you again.

You're a smart guy, so I think you can understand all of this. I just think that you're getting some bad advice from those you work with. "Years" in the field does not always add up to intelligent and educated wisdom. It takes both intelligence and education to do that. A one year paramedic course doesn't add up to education. It adds up to less training than my barber has. And whoever fed you that nonsense line about EMTs saving medics is either truly clueless, or he was just feeding you a pep-talk. Either way, he was not doing you any long-term favours.

This is not just another job we're talking about, Bro. This is your career -- for the next two or three decades -- that you are about to make important choices about. Do the research. Prepare for it in the most intelligent and complete way possible. Use your head, not your time card. Make it your goal to be the very best that you can be, not just meet the minimum requirements necessary to wear the same patch as the guys who are giving you poor advice.

And, of course, I wish you the best of luck!

[jsadin]

Not saying the training is more or less important or difficult. Its just that the city can use me in many different ways where a single-role medic can only be used one way. Once again, not that it is right or wrong, but that is the way the city does it. From an employer stand point it makes some sense.

...and there is the argument used to put EMTs on fire engines and FFs on ambulances. I respect FFs to no end, but it irks me when management tries to fit the round peg in the square hole to make their bottom line look better. FFs want to fight fires, EMTs want to treat patients. I cannot think of two more completely opposite professions to try and integrate.

My apologies for the thread derailment. I really tried....I swear....

[mshow00]

I appreciate your point of view Dust, but I fail to fully grasp it. I guess that is because this is all I know, in the end I find myself surrendering to your wisdom. I have taken intro classes back in high school for Psych, Bio, Chem, and Algebra. I am an Eagle Scout who fell in love with first aid(being my start in this field) I have since taken Psych 101, Biology 101, Medical Term. The school I am going to is heavy in A&P and Pathophysiology. I fully intend on attaining my AAS, Critical Care status, and possibly a bachelors degree in business. I want to be able to do everything I can for my patients, all of them. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Dust said no matter what happens on a call he sleeps well knowing he has the knowledge and wisdom to do everything in his power for that patient. I want that.

[Dustdevil]

Beautiful! That's what I would like to see every EMS provider want! That has to be your plan from the beginning though, not an after thought. You can't say, "well, let me just go get a certification, then I'll build on that later." You only get on chance to build a foundation. Once you are certified and working in the field, you are no longer building a foundation. You are just piling more weight onto whatever foundation you managed. NO paramedic school that does not require those scientific foundation courses BEFORE paramedic education is capable of providing you that solid foundation. It cannot be done, unless they do it the way Ontario does it, by making the process three years long.

Attending an accelerated paramedic programme without first establishing that educational foundation is akin to buying a used trailer home. And attempting to improve your education after the fact is akin to putting a new deck and skirts on that trailer home. No matter what you add on later, you still have a pre-fab trailer with no foundation. You can't go back and fix that. You either get it right from the beginning, or you have to go back, tear it all down, and start over again. And in the years it takes you to do that you are FAILING to do your best to provide your patients with the best possible care. You also fail to provide those future medics like yourself with a professional example to follow. And the cycle continues.

Break the cycle, Bro. Be a leader of the future, not a follower of the past.

[mediccjh]

Back on track.....

gaelic, an ALS unit should be dual-medic in the big-city. Not doing so leads to burnout, whether it be the EMT stuck doing all of the BS jobs, or the medic stuck doing all of the ALS jobs. I personally prefer dual-dispatch, with BLS trucks being dual EMTs and ALS trucks being dual-medic. I prefer working dual-medic.