Medic Attempts Suicide...Lose job or no?

[akflightmedic]

If think the same way as Ruff.

Those people who work in EMS who are lucky enough to have a wife/husband/significant other to go home too at the end of their shift should count their blessings. Not all of us are so lucky. I live for my job. Always have, always will.

If they take that away from me (for whatever reason), then what else do I have to live for?

So your personal happiness is now the responsibility of your employer, regardless of you being qualified or capable of the job?

They should not do what is in their best interest in order to preserve your happiness which is solely dependent upon a job???

Such odd thinking...

[Connie31079]

So your personal happiness is now the responsibility of your employer, regardless of you being qualified or capable of the job?

They should not do what is in their best interest in order to preserve your happiness which is solely dependent upon a job???

Such odd thinking...

I wouldn't have been hired by my employer if I wasn't qualified for the job, and I wouldn't continue to be employed by my employer if I didn't meet the expectations of the job.

All I'm saying is, sometimes some of us let our jobs become our lives.

[akflightmedic]

And my question which you ignored was

Is it the employer's responsibility to maintain your personal happiness?

You said if they took that away for whatever reason, what else would you have to live for. This was in agreeance with the guy who killed himself after the "last straw" of losing his job.

Are you implying that an employer should consider the ramifications of terminating an employee in regards to their mental health and whether or not they would do something stupid (suicide)?

Should they keep someone on staff to prevent this? Is that their obligation?

Words of wisdom follow:

EMS is what we do, it is NOT who we are.

[Connie31079]

If keeping me employed is going to keep me happy & ALIVE, and I continue to fulfill all aspects of the job, then yes, I think the employer has to accept some level of responsibility, especially if that employer has no reason for terminating a person's employment because they were ill due to mental illness (or any other illness that can be corrected).

I don't think mental illness is reason enough for termination. It's an ILLNESS that can be corrected. Don't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

OK, let me ask you a question, AK, since we seem intent on asking questions:

If someone was fulfilling all aspects of their job, and you were their employer, would you be able to fire someone because they were sick (mentally or physically), and you knew beforehand that if you fired them, that it would result in their death? Could you live with yourself, knowing that you took away the only thing that they lived and breathed for?

I. for one, wouldn't be able to do it!

[Richard B the EMT]

From general reading, and there is big time room for error here on my part, if someone doesn't take their meds for a condition, like bipolar, it could be the meds, good as they might be for treating the condition, cause other things observed by the patient, that the patient doesn't like. For an example, a female feels that taking certain meds make her look bloated, even if they don't. Another possibility is, a person who is musically creative when off the meds, but the meds block that creativity when properly taken. Meds can be adjusted, or changed. Meds cannot help if they are not taken.

FDNY offers an Emergency Assistance Program (EAP) which the type has been mentioned in this string.

While it is probably a good idea to pre screen potential employees, if the condition starts after employment, I would hope that the involved department would place the employee on some kind of medical leave, either time chargeable or non time chargeable, until the patient can be either analyzed or medicated back to functional normalcy.

If that means the patient might fly a desk for a while, so be it, as long as they understand it is supposed to be temporary, until they are better. No time limit, as there is no "cookie cutter" formula to work here.

While I understand the principals of PTSD and CISD a bit, and know some here disagree with their effectiveness, it should be offered, if available, to the patient.

Now, I'll play "Devil's Advocate," and mention that someone might feel like filing a lawsuit against the employer for the firing under these circumstances, using the "Americans with Disabilities" act.

[firedoc5]

I may have missed it somewhere down the line, but after a suicide attempt (a legit one), focus on the reason for the attempt, worry about whether or not they are going to keep their job later down the road.

[akflightmedic]

If keeping me employed is going to keep me happy & ALIVE, and I continue to fulfill all aspects of the job, then yes, I think the employer has to accept some level of responsibility, especially if that employer has no reason for terminating a person's employment because they were ill due to mental illness (or any other illness that can be corrected).

I don't think mental illness is reason enough for termination. It's an ILLNESS that can be corrected. Don't be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

OK, let me ask you a question, AK, since we seem intent on asking questions:

If someone was fulfilling all aspects of their job, and you were their employer, would you be able to fire someone because they were sick (mentally or physically), and you knew beforehand that if you fired them, that it would result in their death? Could you live with yourself, knowing that you took away the only thing that they lived and breathed for?

I. for one, wouldn't be able to do it!

The caveat for the mental illness was if they are UNABLE to do the job OR incidents like what the original topic was about occurred, then yes, they need a new job.

I did not say terminate them just for the sake of terminating. I did say if they lied on the application or tried to circumvent a pre employment screening, then yes because they lied, not because they have the condition.

So, if one can NOT do the job or has serious incidents due to a condition, then yes I could fire them without remorse.

Knowing that they may kill themselves by a job loss only reinforces the belief that they should not have been employed to start with. They are definitely unstable and it is NOT the employer's responsibility to base justified terminations on what the potential outcome in that individuals life may be.

If this describes you, please get a mental screening or a hobby.

[Connie31079]

The original question that was asked by the initial poster was: "Medic attempts suicide, should they be fired or no?"......doesn't say if that medic is or isn't able to continue to fulfill all aspects of the job.

If this medic is NOT able to fulfill all aspects of the job, then the employer has a legitamite reason for termination. Of this medic IS able to fulfill all aspects of the job, then there's no reason for termination.

The employer shouldn't be able to use mental illness as the sole reason for termination, especially if the medic is able to get better by taking medication.

God, if that were the case here, there'd be nobody to staff the trucks!

You just seem to automatically think it's OK to fire this person because they're mentally unstable at this time, and obviously you think that they always will be. I say, give that medic time to get better, and once they're cleared by a medical doctor, then allow them to come back to the job.

Don't fire them right away because they're having problems! What kind of a heartless bastard are you???

[JPINFV]

Not to be rude, and the thoughts are nice but let's be real. Is the employer going to pay her while she gets her poop together? I agree with AK if a possible desk job is available, that would be great.

There is a pretty good argument that it is in the best interest of the company to do so (provided that, prior to the break, the employee was a good employee). By "having the employee's back" you send a clear message that the company is investing in its employees. This should increase moral and increased morale will lower employee turnover, absenteeism, etc, while increasing employee investment back into the company (employee feedback, more people picking up shifts, better documentation, taking better care of the units, etc).

Now, I'm not arguing that the provider might very well need to leave the field, but that doesn't mean that there are no placement options, especially depending on the provider's level of education. Liaison positions, education, quality improvement, and other non-field, but field related departments that might use a good provider.

[akflightmedic]

What kind of a heartless bastard are you???

I did not know there were different kinds....

Anyways, we are not talking about just any old mental illness. We are talking specifically of the bipolarism and if you had read any of my posts you would know I am intimately familiar with it which is why I can say without a doubt, that EMS is NOT for people with bipolar diagnosis.

And I think the context of my posts show that I am not heartless at all, exactly the opposite as I am encouraging what is best for the patient. Sorry your dreams have to be canceled, but that is life.

And no where did I say automatically fire them, I believe my very first post said to reassign her, the patient. If reassignment is not possible, then yes termination is in order.

If you are going to try and use my words against me, please quote properly and get them right. I did say one could be terminated if they LIED on a pre employment screen as that is a different issue entirely.

And yes, I could still fire someone knowing that they may kill themselves afterwards. I have already seen it here where I am. Private contractors come over here, not all of them are mercs by the way, best job they have ever had or ever will (pay wise), they get terminated and then they try to kill themselves.

We all know that is merely a cry for help. Now do you think we should of kept this employee over here cause they tried to kill themselves after being terminated. Should we say nevermind, you got your job back, just kidding? Just please promise not to kill yourself or anyone else for that matter please.

Get a grip, this is life, this is the real world. Its not all hugs and kisses because you are passionate about what you do.