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Medic Attempts Suicide...Lose job or no?


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I do agree with Rid with regards to the pre employment screenings. The PD and FD have been doing it for years as I have sat through a few of them myself. (Yes I passed :D )

Whats amazing is an EMS provider can harm people in more (or easier) ways then the police.

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ok, look at it this way

If you are diabetic and you choose to stop taking your diabetic medications then you should be fired because you are a danger to yourself and others just in case your sugar goes down while you are working

If you are on seizure medications and you stop taking them then you should be fired because you might have a seizure and cause an ambulance wreck.

What about other conditions that require medications and people become non-compliant with them. Should they all be fired?

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No ruff and your comparisons are not appropriate.

Most seizure history patients would not be working on an ambo in my state to start with unless they have been sz free for 5 years.

As for the diabetic that is not relevant. The diabetic would present a whole lot sooner than the bipolar patient.

While I do not wish to give a complete lecture here, before you can post your opinion on this subject you need to do some homework and research bipolar. Forget what you have heard or what you think you know about it from watching tv or that Richard Gere movie many years ago.

This is a mental disease process that never goes away; the symptoms are merely controlled by medication (these people are extremely sedate when on meds) or by following strict routines. The cycles are recognized by family or friends that are aware of the condition and know to look for the signals that indicate a cycle is being entered.

Cycles last anywhere from weeks to months and occasionally get closer together. The flip of a switch bipolar is a rare one indeed. Many people who say they are and use it as an excuse for behavior are usually not truly bipolar.

When on meds, the typical patient experiences one of two things.

1. They start to feel fine and stop their meds as they dont need them anymore because they are now "normal". This is part of the mania and the patient will believe it regardless of their medical training. Once off the meds they experience mania. Actually it is more of a hypomania and if you do not know the person, you would never know what they are experiencing. They can hide it very well.

2. Patients get tired of being a zombie and come off their meds, because it sucks to get through the day with your head in a fog. They also start thinking of how much better they were when they didnt take these drugs.

Unfortunately, true biploar patients go on and off their meds all the time for the above reasons. They really can not be trusted regardless of their education or medical experience level.

As I said earlier, a strong support system is necessary for most to lead a normal life without leading themselves or their families into ruin from their actions or non actions.

This is a mental illness and you can not compare it to a physical disease process. If they are able to retain her in a non EMS role, great! If they cant or wont (their prerogative), then yes she should be dismissed.

Find another career that is more suitable to your illness. Working in EMS is not a right and not everyone is cut out for the job. I am glad people have a touchy feely personality and want to help others, but choose a different route to satisfy those personal needs.

The pre employment screenings is one of the things I love about the FD process. They clear you medically, physically and mentally. I think in the long run this produces a more safe environment for all the employees. No, I don't want us all to go Fire, but I do wish we used more discretion in the EMS hiring process.

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One question I have is that if someone is fired for being bi-polar, not taking into consideration of any kind of wrong action. Could the laws concerning prejudice come into play? Say someone was hired and showed no outward signs of bi-polar problems but later it is learned that there is a history of it and they were "dismissed", could that be prejudice?

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No ruff and your comparisons are not appropriate.

Most seizure history patients would not be working on an ambo in my state to start with unless they have been sz free for 5 years.

As for the diabetic that is not relevant. The diabetic would present a whole lot sooner than the bipolar patient.

While I do not wish to give a complete lecture here, before you can post your opinion on this subject you need to do some homework and research bipolar. Forget what you have heard or what you think you know about it from watching tv or that Richard Gere movie many years ago.

This is a mental disease process that never goes away; the symptoms are merely controlled by medication (these people are extremely sedate when on meds) or by following strict routines. The cycles are recognized by family or friends that are aware of the condition and know to look for the signals that indicate a cycle is being entered.

Cycles last anywhere from weeks to months and occasionally get closer together. The flip of a switch bipolar is a rare one indeed. Many people who say they are and use it as an excuse for behavior are usually not truly bipolar.

When on meds, the typical patient experiences one of two things.

1. They start to feel fine and stop their meds as they dont need them anymore because they are now "normal". This is part of the mania and the patient will believe it regardless of their medical training. Once off the meds they experience mania. Actually it is more of a hypomania and if you do not know the person, you would never know what they are experiencing. They can hide it very well.

2. Patients get tired of being a zombie and come off their meds, because it sucks to get through the day with your head in a fog. They also start thinking of how much better they were when they didnt take these drugs.

Unfortunately, true biploar patients go on and off their meds all the time for the above reasons. They really can not be trusted regardless of their education or medical experience level.

As I said earlier, a strong support system is necessary for most to lead a normal life without leading themselves or their families into ruin from their actions or non actions.

This is a mental illness and you can not compare it to a physical disease process. If they are able to retain her in a non EMS role, great! If they cant or wont (their prerogative), then yes she should be dismissed.

Find another career that is more suitable to your illness. Working in EMS is not a right and not everyone is cut out for the job. I am glad people have a touchy feely personality and want to help others, but choose a different route to satisfy those personal needs.

The pre employment screenings is one of the things I love about the FD process. They clear you medically, physically and mentally. I think in the long run this produces a more safe environment for all the employees. No, I don't want us all to go Fire, but I do wish we used more discretion in the EMS hiring process.

fair enough AK fair enough.

I don't think that the person should be fired but that seems to be what everyone is saying that should happen. Read that I said it seems that is what everyone is saying.

Deskjobs are good, someone has to do them. If she/he can function in the desk job role then by all means, let her keep her certification and let her work the desk.

the worst thing that could happen to her, and it could push her over the edge to her own final solution is to take away her livelihood and fire her. What a way to support her.

I had a paramedic partner who had a mental breakdown. Attempted suicide by taking a bunch of pills, Was not successful. He was terminated from his job and about 2 months later he successfully completed his final mission. He was dead when they found him. In his note he said that one of the final straws was the loss of his job. He had been unemployable due to living in a small town(most employers would not hire him because they knew his history).

So put the person behind a desk. Let them keep their job but for goodness sake don't fire em.

And I know of several medics who have seizures and the rules of the road for their employer was if they were on medications they had to be seizure free for 2 years. What about that person who is on medication, is seizure free for 2 or more years and they go off their meds? If they are driving then couldn't they be considered a danger to the public since their seizures could return.

No-one knows when someone with a mental illness will snap and do something drastic. And then again, no-one knows when someone who is seizure free for 5 years with medication will have that all to infrequent breakthru seizure.

Plus I liked your little education lecture you posted for my benefit. I have to admit I'm not as up on psych issues as I used to be.

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One question I have is that if someone is fired for being bi-polar, not taking into consideration of any kind of wrong action. Could the laws concerning prejudice come into play?

Sure, I suppose. But only if you are stupid enough to write "bi-polar" as the reason for the termination on the exit form. I don't think you'll catch any employers doing that.

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One question I have is that if someone is fired for being bi-polar, not taking into consideration of any kind of wrong action. Could the laws concerning prejudice come into play? Say someone was hired and showed no outward signs of bi-polar problems but later it is learned that there is a history of it and they were "dismissed", could that be prejudice?

This is where the pre employment screening comes into play. If they are not weeded out initially, then they are good to go. If they develop it after their employment started, then so be it. You can't fire them for that. But if they lied on a pre employment medical and are caught later, then yes, they should be terminated.

This is the only way you could legally terminate them providing there was no wrong action to speak of.

No, not everyone in EMS or Fire is 100% healthy. Yes, we all have issues. However, there are some issues that should be controlled or even prevented from entering the workforce. Sorry, but no where does it say you are guaranteed the career of your choice simply because you want it. I have been turned down for a career that I really wanted for many years and feel I would be good at, but it just is not possible. There is no reason for me to piss and moan about it.

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oh come on AK, aren't we all guaranteed that? I thought we were. You mean being a paramedic was not a predestined career path for me?

I truly understand the pre-employment psych, medical and physical screening.

What about a pre-employment whacker test?

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Sure, I suppose. But only if you are stupid enough to write "bi-polar" as the reason for the termination on the exit form. I don't think you'll catch any employers doing that.

Didn't think that anyone would actually state "bi-polar" but may say something to the effect of "History of mental issues/ illness" or something to that effect.

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I had a paramedic partner who had a mental breakdown. Attempted suicide by taking a bunch of pills, Was not successful. He was terminated from his job and about 2 months later he successfully completed his final mission. He was dead when they found him. In his note he said that one of the final straws was the loss of his job......

If think the same way as Ruff.

Those people who work in EMS who are lucky enough to have a wife/husband/significant other to go home too at the end of their shift should count their blessings. Not all of us are so lucky. I live for my job. Always have, always will.

If they take that away from me (for whatever reason), then what else do I have to live for?

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