A SWAT Team instead of an RMA

[unknown]

Speaking of which, anyone remember this international case, of Cuban raft surviver Elian Gonzales, no matter which side of the issue you might have been?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/cubanboy/elian1.html

Oh lord how could we forget?!!

(Richard you @#!t stirrer... you is just wanting to open another can of worms......)

[Dustdevil]

Oh lord how could we forget?!!

Yeah really. It was the only thing Clinton did right in eight years!

[Inf]

BRAVO SPENAC!

Stand your ground. We in America are being de-sensitized and brain washed by the system. Leave us alone and allow us to raise our children. If the father and mother did (as the articles stated) the necessary means to evaluate the son and if then they felt he was fine- then leave him be. Let him go. Don’t try to twist arms and bully a family. As for the father refusing to sign the release form- Kudos to him. He didn’t call the EMS’ I wouldn’t sign it either! As a mother of 3 children, whom I have raised on my own (their father drove a truck the entire 12 years we where married) I will be the first to tell you if it was me in this situation, there would be HECK to pay for any one interfering. My children are MY blessing and they are intrusted to me to raise. So allow me to do it. They are MY flesh and blood, I will care for them. NO one will interfere or try to tell me what I can or can not do. This family in the article should be allowed the same stance. It was wrong for the Paramedics, Law Enforcment and Family Services to interfere.

I have been on the other hand of the Law where my children are concerned, I know how this father feels. I have a child with special needs. She has a behavioral disorder. Diagnosed by medical professionals at the age of 3, she has received treatment and counseling. I, as a parent, have taken classes to learn how to care for her; and received counseling of my own.

To the out side world, to the G.P. MY life and that of my childs is none of your business and when a nosey neighbor feels she should call family services because she doesn’t agree with my way of handling my child; IN her face when the Sheriffs department visited her and outlined the fact that I could press charges for harassment should she call on me again. (after family services and law enforcment did a through investigation it was clear for the 6 time nothing was amis at my house)

We have laws that protect our privacy and our rights as parents and the public should honor that. In the end we as parents will win if we stand our ground but all that is going to happen is much like these articles. It gets ugly, messy, names get drug through the mud and the press goes crazy. People debate, throw their weight around and think they know what is best. In the end, bottom line, WHO is the parent and was that childs welfare at risk? OR did we waste valuable TAX DOLLARS—YES YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY, on government resources to pacify a nosey busy body neighbor who thinks they know what is best for a child who is not there own.

What happened to this family is a shame. A pure shame and is the result of a bully system.

As a child who lost her mother to domestic violence and was raised at the hands of a mentally abusive and emotionally neglecting step mother; I will stand strong and say the system is OVER BOARD to the wrong direction tying to make up for years of ignorance and oversight. It seems to me the children that truly need help are not getting it and the ones that are not in harm are the ones getting pursued.

I have my own opinions and views on that but lets save it for another day….my rant is long enough aleady!

incognito, go back to your trailer and stop spewing nonsense over the airways.

you as a parent give up a lot of rights once you decide to conceive a child. abortion is illegal during 3rd trimester, beating your kid is illegal, and condoms are free. the child doesn't have the mental aptitude to determine whether he needs medical attention and its parents with an attitude like yours that the laws were created against.

[spenac]

incognito, go back to your trailer and stop spewing nonsense over the airways.

you as a parent give up a lot of rights once you decide to conceive a child. abortion is illegal during 3rd trimester, beating your kid is illegal, and condoms are free. the child doesn't have the mental aptitude to determine whether he needs medical attention and its parents with an attitude like yours that the laws were created against.

Dude stop the personal attacks. If you disagree fine, state your "facts" but don't attack. Comments like yours above do not build any credibility to the discussion.

[unknown]

incognito, go back to your trailer and stop spewing nonsense over the airways.

you as a parent give up a lot of rights once you decide to conceive a child. abortion is illegal during 3rd trimester, beating your kid is illegal, and condoms are free. the child doesn't have the mental aptitude to determine whether he needs medical attention and its parents with an attitude like yours that the laws were created against.

Oh how RICH!! I can see by your age you havn't found your way yet- so allow me to help you.

LIKE HELL DO I EVER GIVE UP MY RIGHTS! Unless I am unfit to parent I do not give up a right one just because of conception of a child. What kind of crack are you on any how?

And to prove me unfit? I would DIE first before my children weren't cared for properly. Just because I don't alow left winged extremest to tell me what I must and can't do with my kids doesn't make me unfit. It makes me a better parent for standing my ground for MY right to RAISE MY KIDS AS I FEEL IS PROPER FOR THEM.

I am so sorry if this little ole female seems too old fashioned and red neck for your likeing-- oh and by the way- my trailer that I am going back too is a 3500 square foot ranch style home with a full basement 3 full baths and it sits on 2 full acres 3 miles out of town in a rural country setting in the Heart of the Ozarks. Nice fresh clean air for my kids to breath and no smog to cloud my mind or my dicision making!!!

[unknown]

Dude stop the personal attacks. If you disagree fine, state your "facts" but don't attack. Comments like yours above do not build any credibility to the discussion.

And again- Spenac, VERY well put.

[MSDeltaFlt]

I agree with both spenac and incognitogirl. I do not mean to offend, HOWEVER, I believe there are very important points that were not mentioned.

1. What were the explicit instructions on the court order? Did it give the LEO's permission for forced entry?

2. Unless I'm mistaken lay people do not need evidence to call 911 stating suspicions of child abuse or neglect. And once they do, it is the government's and DHS's responsibility to assess the situation to determine whether or not this had happened. When that ball is set into motion, WHOEVER is caring for that child does not have the right to refuse treatment. The field personnel also do not have the right to allow a refusal. They MUST transport and let a physician and DHS assess that child.

This has nothing to do with the quality care being given by the parent(s), legal guardians, etc. All it has to do with is proving with documentation that the child (or any person unable to properly take care of themselves) in question is being given proper care. When you think about it (at least I do), any loving parent would want laws in place to ensure that their children were taken care of should anything happen to them.

Now these laws may vary from state to state, but that's how it works where I live. I aught to know, I'm always getting these ethicolegal issue 911 calls.

Just my two cents.

Stay safe.

[Doczilla]

I tend to agree with MSDelta. This has very little to do with the care provided by the parents.

The state has a responsibility to ensure the safety and welfare of children despite idiocy on the parents' part. When concerns arise over the condition, treatment, or care of a child, the state has a responsibility to investigate. What appears to have happened here is that the parents would not permit evaluation of the child.

The EMTs who responded initially did not have the opportunity to examine the child and verify that. Their suspicions were aroused not by the condition of the child but by the behavior of the father. Neither laypeople nor medical providers need evidence to report their suspicions. Following proper channels, Child Services became involved, and requested to examine the child. The father again refused to let them see the child, then threatened them. This did not help him appear to be a reasonable person raising a child in the manner which he has chosen. This makes him look volatile, and a possible danger to the child and to officers who came to enforce the judge's decision.

Is the father simply indignant about his parental right to determine, to some extent, the destiny of the child, or is he attempting to cover up a crime of child abuse or neglect? Without examining the child, nobody knows. The child was not taken in order to terminate parental rights; he was taken to allow lawful examination in an effort to protect the child's rights. Once it was determined that there was no abuse or neglect involved, the child was returned immediately to the family.

It's easy for a parent to say how fit a parent they are, how well they care for their child, etc. If you know the parent and the child, it may be easy to agree. What we have here is a great unknown: a child with a suspicious and possibly serious injury based on extremely limited information, and a parent who refuses to interact with the agencies charged with protecting children from bad parents. What are they supposed to do? Leave the child there and say, "it's probably okay because he said so"? If that were the case, what parent would ever go to jail for abusing a child?

'zilla

[JakeEMTP]

I have to agree with 'Zilla.

All the proper channels were followed here. While I do not doubt that the child in questions father is an excellent parent, his determination to not let his child be examined by a MD would raise some concerns for me since I don't know him from Adam.

His threats might even lead one to believe him to be unstable. As stated, the State has an obligation to protect children and laws in place to do so. Those of you that are so vehemently against this surprise me. As parents ( I am one also ) I can see you want to protect your children. Put on your EMS togs for a minute and imagine YOU were on this call. If YOU saw a child in the condition described, would YOU just no transport and head for the recliner or would you start the ball rolling in an investigation? After all, it is about patient care, isn't it?

[Just Plain Ruff]

Over the last 15 years in the biz, I've hotlined over 75 parents. Do I regret any of them, nope. Would I hotline them again? Yep.

To me it's all about the children. If I'm suspicious I'll hotline it. If I'm borderline I'll discuss it with a trusted colleague and then more than likely I'll hotline it.

Am I afraid of repercussions? Sure but I would not be doing my job if I did not address my concerns.

Many of the calls came to nothing, no abuse or neglect found but I did my job.

Did some of the calls result in abuse or neglect being found, yes and the child was I hope saved from more abuse and to me that is what makes my job worthwhile.

We are mandated by the state to report any suspicions of abuse be it emotional, physical or sexual and morally we are also mandated to report.

Consider the child you do not hotline because you doubt your suspicions and something terrible happens. Can you live with that?