Jump to content

PCP student direct to ACP


Jeremie_T

Recommended Posts

Hi everyone,

I am Just about to finish my second year as a PCP student and I am trying to decide if I should go directly into the ACP program.

These are the reasons why I want to take the ACP program:

1) ACP has always been a goal of mine since I since I started my studies

2) I have excellent grades so far in the PCP program and feel it would be beneficial to go directly into the ACP program with my mind still fresh with knowledge.

3) It is very hard to get a full time job as a PCP in southern Ontario. I would hate to work part time as a PCP and part time at Mc Donalds after all the work I have done so far.

4) I also like the fact that it gives me the freedom to work all over canada

These are the reasons why I can't make up my mind:

1) A lot of people have told me you should be a PCP for a few years before attempting this course

2) The cost is $15000 (And I am already broke)

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are the reasons why I can't make up my mind:

1) A lot of people have told me you should be a PCP for a few years before attempting this course

2) The cost is $15000 (And I am already broke)

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :D

First: Do a search of this site this subject has been beat to death

Second: Go to ACP school, the sooner you are a medic the better. Why work BLS cheating your community if you are competent enough to offer ALS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll offer this reply as one of the only ACP's that post on this forum (remotely regularly) and the only one that is in the same province as you and has done similar education.

I took the 2 year PCP program and I started ACP less than 2 years after working full time.

Eliminate any comparisons people may draw from the US viewpoint of going straight to ALS after BLS (or asap) especially with Ontario's 2 year PCP program. There is no comparison.

Your questions...

1) I would wager that the majority of people since the advent of the 2 year program would like to do ACP (and maybe CCP). I would assume that most would like to do so within 3-5 years of working as a PCP. School dependent, PCP encompasses 85% of the ACP schooling (in my opinion). The move (at least from an educational standpoint) is not that difficult.

2) I too had "excellent" grades in my PCP program. While it influenced my (relatively) faster move into ACP, it didn't override the need for experience at the PCP level.

3) Yes, it is difficult to get work as a PCP in southern Ontario. It is hardly the part-time PCP, part-time McDonald's employee that you exaggerate with. I think the $30+/hour you'd be making as a PCP would easy negate wasting time in fast food. Also, Alberta and BC are hiring PCP's. Maybe not the same cash as in Ontario, but it is an option.

4) ACP/CCP does give you more freedom to work nationally, however... You would be basically wasting your money on ACP if you did not go to a CMA accredited ACP program. To my knowledge there are only four currently CMA accredited programs: Toronto EMS (in house only basically - 5-6 years+ seniority as PCP needed working in Toronto), Durham, Conestoga, and Ornge. Even if you decide to go to a unaccredited program (big mistake) I believe basically all ACP programs REQUIRE working as a PCP prior to enrollment (anywhere between 6months - 2 years as I recall). The only one that doesn't (as I recall) is Durham. As a person who has who has applied out of province, CMA is the gold standard.

1) You should. I'll explain in a sec...

2) Another reason you should work BLS first.

As you are probably aware it is EXTREMELY rare to non-existent for someone to go straight from PCP (AEMCA) right into an ACP program within minimal or no PCP work experience (I'm talking < 1% and I have never heard of anyone doing it). The reason being:

1) In house/contracted colleges usually require X time in/seniority to get into a class.

2) Only recently have more colleges cropped up that do ACP/ are letting "external" PCP's enter a class.

3) The cost issue

4) This is pretty big... Not a lot of service's are going to be willing to hire a new ACP who has little to no autonomous road experience in a municipal EMS service. Even as a PCP, at least you gain "standing" within your respective base hospital and are "known" to be able to practice sans preceptor. Base hospital's will chat when hiring paramedics from other services, they certainly will be looking at one who is ALS. If you have no prior service at any level, it may raise a few flags, right or wrong.

Listen, I appreciate your desire to go to ALS. Trust me, I shared that desire only a few short years ago coming out of the PCP program. Working autonomously is a hell of a lot different than preceptorship (regardless of the freedom they give you). The cliche of "BLS before ALS" from an Ontario perspective is one that is basically forced to be put into practice. My assessment and basically core of all my own paramedic practice has had only minor minor changes after honing it as a PCP. In all honesty the move to ALS only added an enhanced scope and procedures, nothing more.

In Ontario, the deck is stacked against you big time for what you want to do. Follow my advice, give it a year or two as a PCP, make some money, and then move on to ACP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As you are probably aware it is EXTREMELY rare to non-existent for someone to go straight from PCP (AEMCA) right into an ACP program within minimal or no PCP work experience (I'm talking < 1% and I have never heard of anyone doing it). The reason being:

Happens quite a bit in Alberta.

Medicine Hat College even offers a "zero to hero" (not the real name) EMR-EMT-EMT-P course.

With the high demand for EMT's and EMT-P's in Alberta - along with the low enrollment numbers - the schools have no choice (they also want the $20k) but to accept students who have just graduated from EMT/PCP programs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

As a working medic in Ontario, I can tell you that you wont get hired by a credible service as you have zero experience, if you do get hired, I don't think a medical director will certify you with zero experience.

People need to understand that you YOU NEED real world experience before ACP. Even a couple years in a busy service. I remember when I graduated with an 89% average, I thought I was the best medic in the world. Now 4-5 years later, I look back and think about how green and inexperienced I was! Experience is worth more than any school can teach.

Take the ACP course, graduate, then go on your first call (7 week old VSA) with your newly polished ALS skills with your PCP partner who has been working for years, and I bet the PCP partner will be the one running the call!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a working medic in Ontario, I can tell you that you wont get hired by a credible service as you have zero experience, if you do get hired, I don't think a medical director will certify you with zero experience.

People need to understand that you YOU NEED real world experience before ACP. Even a couple years in a busy service. I remember when I graduated with an 89% average, I thought I was the best medic in the world. Now 4-5 years later, I look back and think about how green and inexperienced I was! Experience is worth more than any school can teach.

Take the ACP course, graduate, then go on your first call (7 week old VSA) with your newly polished ALS skills with your PCP partner who has been working for years, and I bet the PCP partner will be the one running the call!

I disagree and agree at the same time. I think you definitely need SOME PCP experience to go on to be ALS but I don't feel it needs to be YEARS of experience. Depending on call volume, you can go on pretty quickly.

For example, I feel that my 1400hrs of experience has given me adequate ability to move on to ALS. There is no way to arbitrarily decide really other than... well... arbitrarily.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

95 of 100 working ACPs will tell you that you NEED road experience. Their are reasons for this. If you feel that working in Greenstone area (as you have previously posted) for 1400 hours prepares you for ACP class, then good luck. Greenstone had like 650 code 4's in a YEAR between 3 bases! thats less than one emerg call a station every three days!!

Their are also very few services that will hire ACPs direct to FT. Most unions have clauses that prevent services from hiring external ACPs until all union members have been offered the opportunity to train to ACP. Out of eleven ACP schools in Ontario-only ONE allows you to enter without experience in a decent call volumne setting. Could it be that Durham College wouldn't be able to fill Their ACP class if they put an experience requirement in place? I would think that is the case!

Feel free to take the ACP class, when you are done, let me know how the job search goes. If you can get a job with a service (not including the private flight SOA operators) than I will congratulate you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...