RaceMedic

Thats the thing, we are not nor has any one said to hide the fact that a mistake was made. Believe me there are NO SECRETS in a wrongful death lawsuit. Everything will come out and (higher power of choice) help you if you did not document well. And again Flaming, Unless you are in administration you WILL NOT know the number of mistakes made by your service. At least that is the way it is with most EMS departments. Apparently your service does not mind sharing those details, Must have an outstanding lawyer. I am in the hierarchy of one of my services i work for and i do know these numbers. I was also told by my services lawyer ( yes i did consult him prior to posting this ) that "this information is for departmental use only and is not to be disseminated to the public in any form or manner. Individuals directly impacted are notified on an as needed basis following a full medical and procedural investigation to determine what took place. If in fact it was a mistake or negligence, and to what extent it had in the ultimate outcome of the PT's condition. This is ultimately a privacy issue and will be continued to be treated as such." This could be a common reason why people are not reporting the numbers you asked for. Race

Excellent point Doc, Your right it most likely was due to having the extra set of eyes. It just seems that it happens more, in my experience any way with EMTs than it does with other medics. Race

Yea i hear what your sayin .... But that does not mean that all of the rest of us have to make it any worse than it is Race

Brother i'll tell you this, if you ever see an EMT carrying my bag in to a scene they have either pissed me off or i do not trust them... or both. Race

we are all in this together Cali ... never feel alone you can always come here and talk ...

Was this in a service you had to travel to or local to you ? CISD is for everyone on scene and not just employees, there should have been one for everyone involved all at the same time. I am sorry to hear that you were left out of that. Race

LOL ... I am not afraid to admit i have been saved several times... *edit* I will say that those times are getting fewer and father between ...

To address both of yous guys... LOL I was not meaning to attack any one or any level of certification, and yes i have definitely forgotten more than my share of things through out my career and life in general. I just do not agree or understand why it would be more understandable that an EMT would forget or make the mistake over a medic. it is after a basic skill. I would expect the medic (especially a new one) to make that mistake over an EMT ( not a new one) due to medics tend to forget the basics (just stating a fact) we tend to get wrapped up in thinking advanced cares when the problem could be easily remedied by a basic maneuver. Just like the old adage; Paramedics save lives, EMT's save Paramedics... Cheesy but very true. I know i have been saved many times by an alert EMT partner that caught my oversight. I apologize to both of you if you felt i insulted you. that was not my intention. Race

Dfib, I have to say that even as an EMT I was taught pregnant late term females were to be transported on the left. I completely agree with your statement about the doc taking the time to explain rational, I remember it when i was first started in ems. Was a great boost knowing that the doc thought enough of me to spend the time and use it as a teaching moment. Just don't agree that an EMT would not have been taught this specific treatment. Race

What happened? damn either someone hijacked my computer and account or i had a lucent interval in the head injury i call my life ... lol ... i laughed pretty damn hard at your response Dwayne, almost had tears at the "screw you" comment and flaming jumping out from a bush ! Still giggling at those seriously though, this has been a great discussion. when i get back to my laptop and away from this table ill respond more ... (hate typing on screen) Race *edit* Tablet.... not table.... REALLY HATE TOUCH SCREEN KEYBOARDS

You seem to have missed where the docs reported the mistakes they also had a plan to mitigate the effects, read the story again. They found the errors and formed a plan then came to the family. They did not just go off half cocked and say" opps we made a mistake, sorry" and walk away ... such as your suggesting we do. Dwayne shared an incredibly personal story that touches home for me as well, Im just not ready to type it and share. Please have the courtesy to really read the story and take in what had been done, think on it and do not belittle it by picking out little snippets that you think support your point. Thank you Dwayne for that insight and experience. touched home for me, maybe more than i realized. Burden of knowledge.... sucks at times ... Race

But let me ask this now, So you have stopped for the MCI, at what point do you send the ambulance on its way 15 min (or farther) down the road to get radio signal without you in the back with the original PT? as was pointed out once you pull out your bag of toys your stuck. Then your ambulance has to come back and wait till the cavalry arrives to continue on with your original mission. As i see it that is additional time for your critical IFT to be completely left alone. I see this the opposite way,I would stop and help the single car roll over. and drive by the MCI. purely because i feel that the impact and alone time on the original PT would be minimal. And i can transport and provide cares for both if the roll over can be rapidly extricated. (life over limb). Where as the MCI needs requires more people, more equipment, more time. As you said its triage. For me i think in these scenarios that i can do more good for the 2 than the many, due to time, logistics, and ability. Also by doing as accurate scene sizeup as i drive by as i can then the responding agencies can bring the appropriate response from the initial call and actually be there faster and with whats needed than if i stopped and delivered what little care i could with what i had. At least this is what i think i would do. Race Some one mentioned asking permission, always if the PT is alert!!!

Why is an MCI more important that an single car roll over ? Race Didnt edit anything ... hit the wrong button

Tyler, Do not apologize for your personal beliefs to anyone. That is yours and yours alone. No one here can or will fault you for that. you may be challenged but not faulted. I was raised Catholic (not confirmed), Baptized Southern Baptist, But have my own ideas. I do not follow any ones belief but my own. However i do fall back on my former preachers and priests to help me make sense of things. Do not forget them, they are a valuable resource especially if you hold your faith close. If your beliefs have given you strength and hope they will serve you well in this field, But by the same token this career field will shake your faith down to the foundational core. As you progress you will see just how disturbed and cruel humans can be and are to each other. Hold true to yourself, your beliefs, and follow Dfibs advice Race

I would expect the medic to follow protocol. I would still expect a thorough investigation in to the events that took place. I do not expect anyone to willingly and needlessly hang themselves and potentially end their career without due process. Change the scenario anyway you want. The response from me will continue to be the same. Race That is a personnel issue and until you are in management and part of the process and not the cause of it, You will never know that number. Not to mention that number will never be known to the public nor anyone outside of administration and legal council. You really do not understand this concept do you ? Race

Ehh im ok, But thanks ! Race

Call it what you want but there is a reason you know what C.Y.A. Means, We are just trying to get you to see that. Race

I thought maybe you were thinking along the same lines, But since i wasn't sure i clarified my stance. LOL Race

hmmmmm gonna have to ponder this for a bit ... Race

I will admit this is remained much more civilized, however this thread is beginning to reak of the now locked "Patient Advocate" thread. .... Just getting that out there, I know im not the only one thinking it. Race

BAAAHHHHH Haven't decided i start to type something then change my mind ... ohhh well im sure ill come back to this sometime Race

RaceMedic, on 24 October 2011 - 05:07 PM, said: Depends on the PT, If the ask then yes i will tell them what i am giving. However if i am giving them a med and do not tell them what it is, i do ask them to tell me if anything changes and will specify side effects that i really need to know about (if any) But most of the time i just ask them to tell me anything that changes no matter how minor they think it might be. Race The reason i ask is that if we don't mention all the things we do correctly directly to the patient why would we go out of our way to mention the incorrects? Me not telling the PT and/or family exactly what i am giving has nothing to do with hiding anything from them and everything to do with giving them the medications they need in a timely manner. If i stopped and explained every medication i am going to give the PT and/or family the scene times would be horrendous and your needlessly delaying treatment. I did not come about this thought process through school. I did used to explain the meds i was giving but after being yelled at "Just gimme the gawddamn medicine if its what i need" or " I dont care what it is, Just give it already" you start to just give the meds and answer questions as they come up later. Someone brought up auto makers and vehicle recalls ... well i was a certified mechanic for 10 yrs, i can assure you that not all recalls are big news. there are many recalls you never know about and are taken care of as the cars come though the dealership shops or as the parts break and are replaced by the auto shop mechanics at the cost of the owner. the only time there is a "News Worthy" recall is if it has killed someone or several accidents have occurred due to the issue. The auto industry is not subject to full disclosure as you seem to think they are. Race *edit* Lets not forget when the flaw is identified by the auto maker they do not just automatically issue a recall. They must report it the government regulators get involved. why do you think recalls cover Years of production and not just a single model or serial number range?

Depends on the PT, If the ask then yes i will tell them what i am giving. However if i am giving them a med and do not tell them what it is, i do ask them to tell me if anything changes and will specify side effects that i really need to know about (if any) But most of the time i just ask them to tell me anything that changes no matter how minor they think it might be. Race

Excellent example Ruff, and exactly my point ! Race

he was refering to the liberal, as in wide spread common hatred for private companies in EMS ... Race