Ambulance Al

Greetings, As a member of the BC Ambulance Service and The Ambulance Paramedics of British Columbia CUPE Local 873 I think it is my place to provide some friendly guidance in this matter. If you have been offered the chance to come to Vancouver/Whistler for the 2010 Winter Olympics to work as a medic either paid or volunteer, please be aware that you are coming into a labour dispute between the Paramedic Union, the Government of British Columbia and the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee (VANOC_ (and as such the IOC). We were involved in a legal strike with our employer the BC Government and in the midst of voting on a contract offer when the Government imposed legislation ending our strike. This legislation was pushed through a marathon session of the Legislature by a majority government that refused to hear arguments from the opposition party. In fact the minister of Health who tabled the bill actually put earplugs in while members of the opposition read arguments against the bill. Further more it was brought to light that the reason this piece of law was forced was because VANOC asked the government to end the strike before the Olympics to save international embarrassment. As such the Paramedics of BC have chosen to not volunteer to work at any Olympic Venue either paid or unpaid. The only Paramedic involvement will be that of EMS Venue Commanders who were hired prior to our strike commencing on April 1 2009. They could not resign due to threat of dismissal. Our refusal to work the games is due to the fact that our service currently is not capable of meeting standard operational levels because of mismanagement and lack of adequate staffing levels. To staff the games while duty ambulances go unmanned is unethical and unrealistic. VANOC has stated that they will revert to Plan B which is not exactly known but if medics from outside are being recruited to come and work it's obvious what the plan may be. Please in the spirit of solidarity and better judgment DO NOT COME TO BC TO WORK THE OLYMPICS AS A MEDIC!!!! It is safe to say you will not be welcomed and won't be treated well by our membership. Paramedic Unions from across Canada and the US have publicly stated that they will not endorse any of their members coming here to work for the games. Please come to BC for any other reason you like but respect our fight and not work.

BC Paramedics will be issuing 72hour strike notice tonight at midnight with intention of beginning strike action April 1. What does that mean? Yet to be determined as the Union doesn't want to tip any hand to the employer. Essential service levels have been tentatively set to ensure there is not disruption to emergency responses, patient airevac/transfers and other high priority service that BCAS provides to the province of BC. BCAS's last offer to it's paramedics and dispatchers was; *An across-the-board 3 per cent General Wage Increase (GWI) in 2009/10 for all paramedics and dispatchers, building on the 2 per cent GWI increase received in 2008/09, and *One-time signing bonus worth up to $4,100 for full-time staff and up to $2,600 for part-time staff Prior to that they offered: *a three-year proposal that contained the following increases to wages and benefits for paramedics and dispatchers: Signing Bonus – effective April 1, 2009 • Signing bonus of a maximum of $4,100 for full-time and $2,600 for part-time staff Year 1 – effective April 1, 2009 • 2% General Wage Increase for all paramedics and dispatchers effective April 1, 2009 • Labour Market Adjustment (LMA) - Changed eligibility criteria for benefits for part-time staff from six years to just 2 years or 1,000 hours of service annually • LMA - Increases to mileage allowance rates (34% increase) and meal allowance rates (47% increase) Year 2 – effective April 1, 2010 • LMA - First phase of increases to part-time pay rates to address proven recruitment and retention challenges – a cost increase of $2.46 million • LMA - Implementation of a Universal Hourly Rate to reduce the complexity of the current hourly wage system – a cost increase of $1.2 million Year 3 – effective April 1, 2011 • LMA - Second phase of increases to part-time pay rates to address proven recruitment and retention challenges – a cost increase of $2.46 million • LMA - Pay premium for overnight shifts in urban/metro areas – a cost increase of $1.33 million The signing bonus is a dangling 'carrot' designed to persuade the membership to ratify a contract offer by midnight April 1. This bonus is taxed before payout which substantially reduces the actual amount each member receives. Since part-time employees out number the full-time almost 2.5/1 the employer hopes to get them to tilt any ratification vote to an acceptance. Fortunately our part-timers are smarter than that. Interesting times are upon us as a Union and as a Service. More details to come. Please visit www.saveourparamedics.com for more details and ways for you to help out. BC Paramedics will be issuing 72hour strike notice tonight at midnight with intention of beginning strike action April 1. What does that mean? Yet to be determined as the Union doesn't want to tip any hand to the employer. Essential service levels have been tentatively set to ensure there is not disruption to emergency responses, patient airevac/transfers and other high priority service that BCAS provides to the province of BC. BCAS's last offer to it's paramedics and dispatchers was; *An across-the-board 3 per cent General Wage Increase (GWI) in 2009/10 for all paramedics and dispatchers, building on the 2 per cent GWI increase received in 2008/09, and *One-time signing bonus worth up to $4,100 for full-time staff and up to $2,600 for part-time staff Prior to that they offered: *a three-year proposal that contained the following increases to wages and benefits for paramedics and dispatchers: Signing Bonus – effective April 1, 2009 • Signing bonus of a maximum of $4,100 for full-time and $2,600 for part-time staff Year 1 – effective April 1, 2009 • 2% General Wage Increase for all paramedics and dispatchers effective April 1, 2009 • Labour Market Adjustment (LMA) - Changed eligibility criteria for benefits for part-time staff from six years to just 2 years or 1,000 hours of service annually • LMA - Increases to mileage allowance rates (34% increase) and meal allowance rates (47% increase) Year 2 – effective April 1, 2010 • LMA - First phase of increases to part-time pay rates to address proven recruitment and retention challenges – a cost increase of $2.46 million • LMA - Implementation of a Universal Hourly Rate to reduce the complexity of the current hourly wage system – a cost increase of $1.2 million Year 3 – effective April 1, 2011 • LMA - Second phase of increases to part-time pay rates to address proven recruitment and retention challenges – a cost increase of $2.46 million • LMA - Pay premium for overnight shifts in urban/metro areas – a cost increase of $1.33 million The signing bonus is a dangling 'carrot' designed to persuade the membership to ratify a contract offer by midnight April 1. This bonus is taxed before payout which substantially reduces the actual amount each member receives. Since part-time employees out number the full-time almost 2.5/1 the employer hopes to get them to tilt any ratification vote to an acceptance. Fortunately our part-timers are smarter than that. Interesting times are upon us as a Union and as a Service. More details to come. Please visit www.saveourparamedics.com for more details and ways for you to help

The JI has been trying and failing to produce a product that is a) Nationally recognized and worthwhile to the JI. They care not about the pass/fail rates. They want your money. PERIOD! In BC we have ACP and PCP that will never change. In my opinion you need to be able to do an ambulance call before you even should consider training to the ACP level and trust me there are many PCP's who can but there are also many that can't. ACP is not just the glam of big drugs, tubes and fancy monitors. It is being able to run a call. Quarterback it if you will. To know what is appropriate treatment and the risk vs benefit of doing so. ACP is not for everyone and quite frankly not everyone is for ACP. PCP's in BC have a pretty big tool kit already and go to EVERY type of call. ACP here is targeted to the Charlie/Delta level AMPDS calls and in most cases don't do squat because they aren't required. PCP's are gaining new treatments, protocols and tools all the time. The JI had the monopoly in BC for a long time. Now they have competition both in BC and from other institutions in other Provinces. With the laws deregulating inter-provincial trade, it is now possible for anyone with a License and training from outside of BC to come and simply write an exam and take some basic training in operational matters to work for BCAS. The JI is scared of these facts and wants to make their program more enticing. Lowering the standards for enrollment is one way. I am a PCP and I am proud!

Freak, CUPE 873 The Ambulance Paramedics of BC have your back! We know what you are up against. The best thing that EMT's in Alberta can do is to Unionize everyone that works in EMS. Be they in Calgary or Kananaskis. Get everyone under a Union flag that holds you separate from the other health employees unions. You do not want to be negotiating a contract with the lab techs, ECG techs, laundry workers (oh wait they were privatized weren't they?) etc. We have our own problems here in BC right now but trust me we are watching and do care. Good Luck!

Thank you all for your support. We are in tough but our 96% strike mandate has our managers nervous. NEVER before has there been such an overwhelming turnout for a vote. 70% of the membership voted! When you consider that there are over 3500 members in our Union that is a huge number. To put in in perspective national elections like the recent US elections only garnered 50 +/- % of the voter population to elect Obama. In Canada even less of a percentage re-elected Harper with a minority government (we do things a bit different up here) WE all face dangers in our line of work. WE all need to stand together. Consider this, if one EMS pays well others will start to notice. If those others start to demand decent wages WE all win! One wonders what our profession would be like if we had an international Union like the IAFF? Please visit www.saveourparamedics.com and take the time to send a letter via the links provided. Support from outside of BC carries a lot of weight. We live in a province that depends on tourism for a large bulk of our economy. We are hosting the 2010 Olympic Winter Games here and our government is hoping on economic windfall from tourism then and beyond. If EMT's from around the world wrote letters stating they would stay away from a place that treats their front line emergency medical workers like crap that would have an impact. (but if you do come, look me up, I may buy you a beer! ) Cheers!

Hi Guys, I would like to reply to each of your comments individually; Pond, You are absolutly right. Preaching to the converted is a bit masturbatory but it is nice to see what my fellow EMS brothers and sisters think. We have the public support. The website saveourparamedics.com is getting the word out to the public. Many of us have put banner decals in the windows of our personal vehicles to advertise the site. The public is talking and supporting us. Crotch, I know that is some places $60K a year seems like bankers wages but in BC that is barely middle class. We live in the most expensive province in Canada. Until the latest world market downturn housing was through the roof with an average detached home in Vancouver costing $700K! Our gas is taxed to the hilt as are many other necessities like liquor and smokes! lol. A Vancouver Police Constable makes $80K/year and a Firefighter $85K. We are way behind the other emergency workers we respond with to the same calls. Doc Harris, First off cool handle. We used to have a DJ here in Vancouver that goes by that name. A bit of a legend. Secondly, thanks for your support. As a new student to this profession you can appreciate what it would be like to come out of school and have to work for a service that for the first five years will only pay you your full wage when you get a call. The rest of the time you carry a pager for $2/hour or have to sit standing by in the station for $10/hour. How long would it take to pay off your student loan? Many of my students upon graduation head for the oil patch where they can pull down $400/DAY! Or they head off to other EMS in Canada where they can step into a full time gig from day one and make far better a wage than any full timer here does. It is important to consider that if we all support each other we further the whole profession in bettering the pay scales, profile and public image of Emergency Medical Services. Thank you all who have visited the site www.saveourparamedics.com or that have PM'd me to offer support.

UPDATE Ambulance Paramedics of BC have voted 96% in favor of strike action. This puts us in legal position to strike come April 1/09 the expiry of the current collective agreement.

UPDATE BC Ambulance Paramedics have voted 96% in favor of strike action. In a vote of extremely high turnout Paramedics in BC have told the employer that they are willing to engage in job action if a new contract is not achieved before the expiry of the curren collective agreement on March 31/09

Crotch, Currently we are making on average $25/hour. Overtime is theoretically 1.5 but we are factored out of 17% of that so really 1.3 when the smoke clears. We work a 42 hour week but are paid for 38. Again this is a factoring matter. Factoring you ask? This was a accounting effort to put all employees on the same earning level. Some work a 4 on 4 off pattern of 12 hour shifts (two days followed by two nights) Others work a 4 day 11 hour pattern of either straight days or two days followed by two afternoon shifts. Then still others work four 10 hour days. Because of the varied hourly patterns and because we are salaried employees they have this mathematical formula that factors those that work the longer shifts to equal out to the shorter shifts so everyone earns the same bi-weekly pay. Very confusing indeed. Vancouver Fire Department for example just ratified a 5 year contract giving them 17% or so raise. Kicker is that it expires this year. All that raise will retro back 4 years. They begin bargaining the next contract, I believe at the end of '09. Vancouver Police, who we had parity with back in the 70's and 80's, will be negotiating a new contract for 2010. Currently a 1st class Constable (5year) makes $80k / year. In comparison I have been a paramedic for NINE years and make $56K. Go to the website I have quoted and see the whole story.

Anthony, Thanks. I do tend to ramble when I am passionate about something. I hope that anyone who comes back to this thread takes the time to read what I wrote and to visit [web:bd93fd11da]http://www.saveourparamedics.com[/web:bd93fd11da]

Yes it is debatable whether 'A' letter to a politician will make a difference but look at it this way; One letter = round file Ten letters = response from an aid= One Hundred letters = personal response from the politician One Thousand letters = debate in the legislative assembly Now if letters started coming in from EMS workers from outside of the province supporting us, particulairly letters to our local newspapers, will show that what BC Ambulance is offering and saying about it's Paramedics is disgraceful and disgusting. Please lend a hand and take the time to show your support. If we raise the bar here perhaps it will help raise the standards for other EMS across the country.

I would like to invite you all to have a listen to an open line radio show featuring our Union President John Strohmeir on the CBC yesterday. http://www.cbc.ca/bcalmanac/ Go to Tuesday -2/3/2009 Don't forget to visit http://www.saveourparamedics.com Thanks!

Greetings! Though I have not visited EMT City for a while it still is one of my favorite EMS sits on the WEB. Friends I ask that you take the time to visit this web site http://www.saveourparamedics.com/ This is a site developed by the Ambulance Paramedics of BC CUPE Local 873. WE are the men and women who serve the Province of British Columbia for the BC Ambulance Service. Currently we are in collective bargaining for a new contract for our members. The managers of BCAS have offered us a 2% raise the first wage increase in 5 years! This is while our allied Emergency Workers the police and firefighters have seen wage increases in double digits for the same period annually. WE have asked for wage parity with other Emergency personnel and have been told by our managers that we are not as trained as them nor do we do the same type of work. Yet day in day out Paramedics Police and Firefighters attend the same calls together, work with each other and take on the same risks. Right now a full time Paramedic in BC earns $20-30,000 per year less than a Vancouver Police Constable or Vancouver Firefighter with the same seniority. I ask you is that fair? BC has had the best economy in Canada for the last 4 years and will be hosting the 2010 Olympics and Paralympics in Vancouver and Whistler. The Government of BC will be holding a general election in May. The Premier Gordon Campbell is going for a third term. On winning his last term his government enacted a bill that CRIMINALIZES any negative advertising against the government 90 days prior to an election. Comparisons to some dictatorship aside, WE need to get the message out to the public that the Government of BC is dis-values it's Paramedics. Recently we were compared to Care Aids, Lab Techs and LPN's by the management of BCAS's negotiation team when we asked for higher wages. Please visit http://www.saveourparamedics.com/ and read about our current campaign and join us in our fight to a livable wage. Thank you Ambulance Al PCP

Greetings! Though I have not visited EMT City for a while it still is one of my favorite EMS sits on the WEB. Friends I ask that you take the time to visit this web site www.saveourparamedics.com This is a site developed by the Ambulance Paramedics of BC CUPE Local 873. WE are the men and women who serve the Province of British Columbia for the BC Ambulance Service. Currently we are in collective bargaining for a new contract for our members. The managers of BCAS have offered us a 2% raise the first wage increase in 5 years! This is while our allied Emergency Workers the police and firefighters have seen wage increases in double digits for the same period annually. WE have asked for wage parity with other Emergency personnel and have been told by our managers that we are not as trained as them nor do we do the same type of work. Yet day in day out Paramedics Police and Firefighters attend the same calls together, work with each other and take on the same risks. Right now a full time Paramedic in BC earns $20-30,000 per year less than a Vancouver Police Constable or Vancouver Firefighter with the same seniority. I ask you is that fair? BC has had the best economy in Canada for the last 4 years and will be hosting the 2010 Olympics and Paralympics in Vancouver and Whistler. The Government of BC will be holding a general election in May. The Premier Gordon Campbell is going for a third term. On winning his last term his government enacted a bill that CRIMINALIZES any negative advertising against the government 90 days prior to an election. Comparisons to some dictatorship aside, WE need to get the message out to the public that the Government of BC is dis-values it's Paramedics. Recently we were compared to Care Aids, Lab Techs and LPN's by the management of BCAS's negotiation team when we asked for higher wages. Please visit www.saveourparamedics.com and read about our current campaign and join us in our fight to a livable wage. Thank you Ambulance Al PCP

Ed, Sounds like you have the right attitude. Good luck. The Kootney's are awsome. Keep your options open too. I worked two years on the north coast lots of flying and marine calls. Take care

BC is now considering NON-medically trained applicants for Dispatch training positions. With AMPDS there is (in their opinion) little need for a Paramedic to be assessing calls that come in to dispatch centers and even less knowledge to dispatch ambulances. Give it a shot $65K+ per year and 4 on 6 off. Nice work if you can get it. POSITION: Call Taker Trainees LOCATION: Vancouver OPEN TO: All BCAS Employees and Others BC Ambulance Service is accepting applications for 24 seats in the September 2007 and January 2008, training program for Call Takers and Emergency Medical Dispatchers. BC Ambulance is the largest provider of emergency ambulance response within the province of British Columbia. A critical component of the BC Ambulance mandate is to operate an emergency communications center. On a 24 x 7 basis, this center offers the public immediate access to emergency services through 911 calls and provides, 2-way information sharing with our paramedic resources. If you like a fast paced, challenging work environment this career may be of interest to you. An ideal Call Taker will have the: o ability to quickly and independently make immediate and logical decisions and take appropriate action in a complex dynamic environment o ability to manage working under moderate to high levels of stress for sustained periods of times, o ability to balance their personal and work life while working a rotating shift schedule that includes days, afternoons, and nights while working weekends and statutory or religious holidays, o the ability to work co-operatively within diverse teams, work groups and across the organization to achieve group and organizational goals There will be a career information session on May 24, 2007 in Burnaby. Registration is limited to 200 participants. To register for this session, send your name and contact information and include in the Subject Line of your email “EMD Career Information Session” to HBCASHR2@Victoria1.gov.bc.ca. Additional information sessions may be planned. Please visit www.health.gov.bc.ca/bcas for additional information on this career opportunity. Qualifications: Supporting Documents for the following must be provided at the time of application: 1. Grade 12 or equivalent; 2. A current, valid OFA3. Applicants licensed at a higher paramedic level meet this requirement. 3. A valid CPR-C certification. Applicants licensed at a higher paramedic level meet this requirement. 4. Vision acuity of 6/9 in the best eye. Applicants holding a Class 4 Unrestricted Driver’s License meet this requirement. 5. Audiogram showing hearing ability within normal range (with or without hearing aid). Selected applicants will be required to participate in the Call Taker and EMD Dispatcher Selection process, consisting of a progressive series of tests and interviews, and for external applicants a pre-employment physical and a criminal record search. Additional Information for Applicants to this competition: • Testing will be held on the following days: Date Location May 14,2007 3rd Floor - 2955 Virtual Way, Vancouver May 15, 2007 3rd Floor - 2955 Virtual Way, Vancouver May 17, 2007 3rd Floor - 2955 Virtual Way, Vancouver May 18, 2007 3rd Floor - 2955 Virtual Way, Vancouver May 28, 2007 3rd Floor - 2955 Virtual Way, Vancouver May 29, 2007 3rd Floor - 2955 Virtual Way, Vancouver June 1, 2007 3rd Floor - 2955 Virtual Way, Vancouver • Testing for internal applicants will begin on May 14, 2007 and will continue until all internal applicants to the competition have been tested. Additional testing days will confirmed as required. • Applicants who live outside of the lower mainland may write the written exams at the Local Government Agents office found in their community. • Applicants who are successful in the written exams, will be contacted and scheduled for Criticall testing. • Applicants who are successful in the Critcall test will be invited to an Oral Interview. • Applicant who are successful in the above assessments will be required to provide a current, valid Audiogram showing hearing ability within normal range (with or without hearing aid) prior to the beginning of training. To apply for this opportunity, individuals interested in positions within the Emergency Communications Center should submit a current BC Ambulance Employment Application form to: Lower Mainland Human Resources Office BC Ambulance Service Suite 301 – 2955 Virtual Way Vancouver BC V5M 4X6 Tel: 604.660.6006 Fax: 604.660.3280 Closing date: May, 31, 2007 NOTE: ALL APPLICATIONS MUST BE RECEIVED AT THE ABOVE ADDRESS NO LATER THAN THE CLOSING DATE OF THIS POSTING. All current employees of BC Ambulance Service who meet the qualifications will be considered for any vacancies before external applicants. BCAS thanks all applicants for their interest; however, only individuals selected for an interview will be contacted.

Ed, I may be one of the two that Vs-eh refers too. First off. Go get your PCP asap. EMR, though not useless is pretty low on the totem pole. Many small communities in BC have EMR's working but with the JI and Douglas College pumping out PCP's, EMR is no better than OFA III. I know it is an added expense even more so with the licensing exam fees but in the long run you will earn that money back. If you make the right choices. Secondly the interview is pretty straight forward. They will ask you questions like, "What is the most difficult decision you have had to make in the work place, What was the result and did you consider all the consequences before making your decision? How would you have better handled the situation if given another chance?" Be yourself. Don't offer-up any more information than they ask for. And for God's sake relax. Very few don't pass the interview process. You have to be a real deviant or nut-job to crash and burn. When you pass don't limit yourself to just working in the part-time stations close to Vancouver (if that is where you are starting out) BC is a big province with lots of interesting places to live and work. When I started out I took the same advice and moved to the small town I was first assigned to. Tough at first being a city boy and living in a village of 700 but it was interesting and I soon developed a trust with the locals as I was one of them and not some ambulance guy that shows up on the week ends to work. By working in smaller stations first for a couple of years while you build seniority you also build confidence and skill. It is a more relaxed pace an there are usually good crew-mates that will help you along the way. You also get exposed to a variety of calls. Every station has their common calls but each station will have calls that are exclusive to them due to location, environment and resident populations. If you have no strings tying you to staying in Vancouver or what ever city you may live in currently then consider moving to your post. Speaking of work, Ya get a second job if you need to. In small towns that can be very easy in most cases. Most of the time they will understand if you have to take off to do a call or they will schedule you around your ambulance commitments. When I started there was no pager-pay, no stand-by pay. You were paid when the pager went off. My record was 16 days with no call out. At least now you are guaranteed $12-240 per day depending on the shift and that is without actually having to do a call. As your seniority grows you will be able to transfer to bigger and busier stations. All the while perfecting your craft and earning more. With the way the full time hiring is going I think the seniority is at about 4 years of part-time PCP to bid for F/T. If that seems long it really isn't. Time flies when your having fun and I found working in the small towns of BC a blast! Consider too that only 7 years ago when I started the wait was 10+ years. I made it in 5. There are a ton of senior medics looking to retire and even more if we get the Public Service Occupation designation for early retirement like Fire and Police have. So the wait will be even shorter. The ACP recruitment is a bit of a joke. There has been no rush west for jobs here as ACP is a targeted roll and PCP is the standard here. Those that have have found the licensing to be very tough. There are ACP spots open but only in the major centers and they are expensive to live in. With the current wages you have to work some O/T most blocks to keep up. Base at the PCP level is about $50k full-time and $25/hr part-time. ACP is around $70k per year. There are only a very few P/T ACP in BC and only because they choose to be due to other outside more lucrative work. If you have any other questions just PM me and ask. Good luck and welcome to the team.

I have tons of BCAS (British Columbia Ambuance Service) patches to trade for WHY ambulance.al@gmail.com

You need to have the patient on a spine board or use a clam-shell/scoop type stretcher to lift the patient. The patient after all needs to be supine for the SAGER to be effective.

The BC Ambulance Service in British Columbia, Canada uses the SAGER exclusively. Why? Because the SAGER was invented by one of our own back in the 70's. He and his brother still work for us. Doug sold the patent to Minto and they have improved on it. The SAGER is one of the best traction devices out there. Keeps the leg anatomically aligned. Traction is quantified and can be adjusted at anytime. The KTD if you look at it is based on the SAGER. The only difference is the way the traction is applied and maintained. It is great for situations where space is a limitation.

Neesie, Um what part of Primary Care PARAMEDIC don't you get??? If you are called a PCP and the last P stands for what TYPE of PARAMEDIC you are then why can't you call yourself a PARAMEDIC? Should the Advanced Care PARAMEDIC have to call themselves something different? Or the Critical Care PARAMEDIC? The reality of what the public thinks is not that they wash us all with the term PARAMEDIC and know what that may or may not mean. To most we are Ambulance Drivers. Not a very accurate term I know but then again when have you known the public to be accurate on anything that is not part of their own little lives? aussiephil makes the best point. If you are going to split hairs then consult a dictionary and look to the exact meaning. Better yet worry about taking care of the patient to the best of your ability and skill set and stop worrying what title you have. Ambulance Al Primary Care Ambulance Driver Paramedic

Yet again Punk you live up to your handle...... If that is your idea of rationalization Hockey = Violence = CANADA then you have a very interesting view from your room on the ward. Well then since the Klan is an American born thing then America must be the most racist country on the planet. I would bet that the klansmen would most likely do something about,or to, the African flag in the car window and its owner instead of just turning away. We see many 'symbols' in our society that mean one thing to some and something completely different to others. Many symbols youth of today use are violent, racist, sexist, demeaning, negative, hurtful, and cruel. Where does most of todays pop culture take its mark from? The good ol USA. Hmmm. Now do I believe that all Americans are inhumane people? No. Do I think that you are shining example of what is an American? We will see in your reply.

For a Canadian perspective... I do know about US history...bloody violent and tragic. The Civil War it seems is something that though horrible, Americans seem to hold onto with a strange reverence. Especially with the use of the Rebel flag. I have always equated it with the hillbilly type good ol boy attitudes (that seem to go hand in hand with a lower education level) and the KKK. Flags are a representation of pride and nationality. Look at your Avtar...most have a flag of where they are or are from. Nothing wrong with that. For most it is a symbol. If you want to equate yourself with something that is or was a symbol of racism (not to mention the loosing side) fly at her. To each their own. I have a maple leaf tattooed on my body (guess where) and the flag on my flight suit, as a symbol of pride. No where can you say that it stands for anything negative in all of history.

PCP = Primary Care Paramedic British Columbia Ambulance Service Prince Rupert BC CANADA!!! Equal to most EMT-I in the States.