kpeppermintpatty

Robbie Robertson sings it

ACE- That puts it in better steps than the MD protocols do, thanks. Just a note though to those who say transport to closest trauma but no helo- The closest trauma center to my first due is 45-60 min. minimum ground transport, helo is 7-15 minutes. There are also only 2 ER's within 30 min. of here, average ground transport is 20 minutes.

paramedicmike- I understand the windshield starring and would be thinking the same as you if it wasnt for the fact that the first thing the woman said to me was "I hit my head on the windshield." Being "shook-up" and being agitated boardering combative are 2 different things. When it comes to MVA's, I do stick to my protocols for the most part, as where I am located a majority of our calls are not trauma, but medical. My chiefs know this and were on-scene, any questions I had went straight to them. As for the other stuff in your post, I agree that I stand corrected, my eyes skipped over the "consider", my apologies.

yes I did, the officer maintained that she was over 18 and that he couldn't do anything about it. Ace-I am not challenging you, I was asking sincerely, not trying to be a smart ass or anything like that.

How is that negligent? If a pt tells you not to do somthing and are a/o, you can't do it. If a pt says I do not want this, you can't do it. If thats the case than why don't we work or push cardiac drugs on DNR-B pt's in full arrest?

I couldnt be sure if she was or not, she might have been diabetic, but as she wouldn't let me assess her, I couldn't tell

As for RMAs, protocols say that if a person is not alert/oriented and still refusing or refusing against medical advice and are a/o then police can be called and pt can be placed under emergency orders, then they have no choice. Police on scene would not place her under the orders when requested so I couldn't do anything the pt didnt want me to, which included everything.

never said it was a direct quote, multiple posts pointed that way. But if it makes you feel better and I misunderstood your other sarcastic comments and took them for sincerity then I'm sorry.

Our protocols have certain MOI/NOI that as a basis are automatics for helo transport. If this woman had no complaints and had good vitals would I have started a helo? No. But because of how agitated and based on the MOI, I started it. I couldn't obtain vitals beause she refused to let us touch her. Plus, I couldn't get a definite answer as to whether or not she lost consciousness becuase she refused to answer my questions, something I probably should have mentioned in my original post. Ace-I've seen it in the other topic meant for that. And I'm not challenging you, merely trying to "help" you understand that the best way to help isn't to be a sarcastic jerk.

Hey Ace, your one of the ones saying that teens shouldn't be EMTs becuase they arent mature enough right? Well being a dick to make yourself feel better doesn't show much maturity does it? I fully accept the different comments people are making if they are trying to help me, but not ones out to make others feel like shit.

I was duty crew EMT, there were multiple cheifs and officers there, but I was the in-charge EMT.

Ace you must really enjoy kidnapping, what do you think I didn't try to convincer her? We said everything we could to her, cops didn't want to deal with her, not me. I tried, my driver tried, ff's tried, other EMT's tried, nothing we said worked.

Once again, it's not like I decided oh fuck it, just cancel the helicopter, to hell what happens to my pt. It frustrated me so much that even the fire fighters on scene were trying to help tell the woman that she needed to go. The pt was alert and oriented, she refused all treatment, examination, stabilization, transport. She wouldn't let me even take her blood pressure let alone her blood sugar. and since kidnapping is indeed illegal even in southern md, I was stuck. I wasn't being negligent or trying to push a refusal because I didn't feel like dealing with her.

to clarify, helo wasn't started because I smelled alcohol, it was started due to the MOI. Yes, she was alert, knew what happened, how it happened, where she was, all that good stuff. I didn't just "let" her sign a refusal. If a pt in MD refuses transport or care and we think they need that, we can call police who can put them under emergency orders, where they have no control over if we take them or not. As stated, police here didn't help the situation, they wouldnt place her under emergency orders even after I requested, I couldnt force the woman to go. As for the airbags, I've seen windshields starred by them, but it wasn't just a general spidering. There was a point of impact that was pushed out, not completely broken, but pushed out and the size of a head with spidering out to the sides.

main reason for helo besides MOI and protocols was I was concerned of a closed head trauma. She said she had her seatbelt on but where she hit the windshield showed she obviously didnt, the impact point was about 6 or 7 inches from the top of the windshield.