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  2. I totally agree with you PM - (paramedicMike). it takes saving, possibly a company match or tuition assistance or assistance from family or a student loan. My example was extreme on the +30K that I'm still paying back after 10 years or so but the ROI for my investment has not been returned. My parents paid for my paramedic course which was 2400 total but I did not get a degree out of it but I already had one - it was a BA in Admin of Justice, or I was just finishing it up, can't remember that far back. Hell I cannot remember yesterday let alone 20+ years ago how things went. But I do remember the lifepack 5 and mast pants and how to put them on. I'm all for paramedic degree's be they associates or bachelors. I think for a run of the mill field medic an associates degree is appropriate but for someone who wants to be a supervisor/FTO/higher up manager then a Bachelors degree is essential. Just my .000000002 cents as my opinion be that I no longer truly practice is really worth just that. .0000002 cents. I wonder what dust would say on this thread.
  3. The cost of the JCCC program you linked is under $6K for Johnson County residents and a little over $7k for other Kansas residents for the entire program (tuition information here). That's a little cheaper than current tuition for the program from which I graduated. (When I went there it was cheaper than current rates dictate.) That's not an up front cost. That's over the entire two year course of study. It may require some budgeting (like not buying that light bar for your car and maybe a couple pair of Dickies instead of that one pair of 5.11 pants) but it can be done. In many places trade schools are through the local community college. Cost won't be that much different. This can be done. As mentioned up-thread Oregon already requires paramedics to have a degree and have done so for years. As EMS education improves and, with it, the standing of EMS as it's own legitimate component of emergency medicine wages will improve. The industry needs to stop making excuses for why we can't. We need to start advocating for why we *can*.
  4. This I can't help but agree with but the thing I have to call into question is this, our pay already sucks big donkey balls and putting a loan payment on top of our responders already meager living(wages) could put some of them into deeper hock or debt. Do you also then embrace the programs that offer loan forgiveness (which almost no-one can qualify for - I know, I've tried to qualify for them) and saddle these providers for the next 20 years with payments that never ever ever ever ever seem to go away just so we as a profession can spout those hallowed words "our profession is a degreed profession" there is a great meme out there that shows two men side by side one guy it shows that he has student debt, a degree where it's hard to find a job and is in debt up to his eyeballs the other guy went to trade school, has no debt or minimal debt, got a trade, and just turned off the guy in the above sentences power. I know not a great analogy but I have 27K in student loans still after 12 years for a Masters in project management that I was given this really polished song and dance from Keller Graduate school of management that it would help me become a higher paid consultant but honestly it has not, I'm just paying 232.00 for the next 15 years.
  5. This is simply a survey for a college class of mine. I'd appreciate it if you go through and respond to it. It's part of a research portion of a paper. The following link is the Google Forms survey. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdhfi204oxOQkP1g43a09WVTajws7imwgzh_8wCjPW08MfySA/viewform?usp=pp_url
  6. Not bad, Mike. I like the composition requirement. I like the sociology requirement. I really, *really* like that there's an ethics component. For an associates level program it's a good start. Ultimately, I'd like to see something like that become the entry level requirements for a BLS provider. I'd like to see a bachelor's degree become entry level education for a paramedic. The course of study outlined in your local program is similar to the one for the degree awarding program I completed. (I had a computer skills class that I had to complete.) For a bachelor's program one should, yes *should*, have to take additional classes like psychology, history, even literature and philosophy in order to complete the program. There is a benefit to a well rounded education. In EMS we deal with every part of the population of the area in which we work. Having a broad educational base as a foundation for the technical knowledge and skill training will only serve to help us in dealing with the very people we serve. Speaking more broadly there seems to be an increasing sense that education is somehow a bad thing. It is not. Education, in all it's forms, is a GOOD thing. There is nothing wrong with leaning something new. There is nothing wrong with increasing our knowledge base. Having a broad educational foundation will only help not only in dealing with other people but with improving the overall functionality of society.
  7. So question, what are the true benefits of having a degree? Not sniping but do medics truly need american history and other similar courses or can we build a EMS bachelors or Associates degree that focuses specifically on what medics(not talking about EMT's here) need to be successful. I cannot cut and paste the screenshots here but here is the Johnson county community college paramedic curriculum for AAS in Paramedic. here's the link - http://catalog.jccc.edu/degreecertificates/emergencymedicalscience/emergency-med-science-aas/ If this was the norm - then this might not be a bad framework but to add all the extra's such as history, and sociology courses - it sort of loses it's luster. just my 2 cents which is often worth less than 2 cents.
  8. This is an excellent question. I'd argue that we don't need to reinvent the wheel. I'd also argue that this will not be an overnight fix. It will take time and will require patience. As loathe as I am to make this comparison look at nursing. Nursing used to be a diploma or certification only educational program. Now it's at least an associates program. It some places nursing jobs are only available to BSN applicants. It didn't happen overnight for them. It won't happen overnight for us. For EMS I think NREMT has sort of started this process. Paramedic programs need to be accredited (as of 2013) by the Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Programs. This is a good first step. It's been this way for six years now. The next step might be to require accreditation at a degree awarding institution by a certain date. Then require new those earning new certifications after a certain date hold at least an associates degree. It'll be a multi-step process undertaken over years to make the change. There will probably be some grandfathering in of older providers and/or a grace period during which providers will need to complete a bridge course of sorts (similar to the RN to BSN programs that are out there). There will be push back from old school EMS-ers (No degree is going to help me start that IV any better!) and fire departments (What do you mean our medic mill that pushes out paramedics from a condensed program only so they can ride an engine isn't good enough?). Like old school nurses and old school nursing diploma programs, they will lose. As to why there is a shortage in some areas you have to look at a larger picture. Is there a shortage of just EMS-ers? Or is there a shortage of everything else? RNs? Docs? PAs/NPs? Access to basic services? Why is that? In a lot of cases because it's rural and there's little incentive to undertake the effort. Stop relying on the volunteer aspect which, ultimately, cheapens us all and accurately value the services provided by educated EMS providers. Do this and I think you'll see a change in the shortage. (Maybe not fix entirely, but certainly lessen the shortage.) Under no circumstances am I arguing this will be easy. It won't be. There will be a lot of push back from a lot of entrenched special interests. Until we fix education, however, nothing will change. Fix education, align ourselves as legitimately educated, degreed, licensened *MEDICAL* providers and not some haphazard add on to another public safety agency, and every problem currently facing EMS will go away.
  9. Just a bit of insight / opinion from one of those non-US degree requiring countries.. I just spent that last 25minutes trying to articulate the merits of having a degree in EMS, however, both my rationale and frustration cannot be summarised in a single online post so I'll just agree with what Mike already said. One quick point to consider...when you look at some of the better known services in the US (medic one, wake co, Boston, etc), what are these services doing that have people are standing in line for jobs and what type of people are willing to put in the effort vs an easy employment mom and pop provider or even a well paid fire/medic job?
  10. @emt2359 Where you are right there is a shortage in some areas but in most of those areas are volunteer run agencies. I have seen a lot of these areas moving to a paid staff. part of EMS's problem in the US I feel is Volunteerism in Emergency Services. With a wage increase and more opportunities will bring more people quality providers to the field. EMS needs to be viewed more as a Career, not a hobby
  11. I agree with Mike with a higher standard of education will come with more respect as a profession. With this I believe salaries will improve as well. I have an an AAS in Paramedic Technology, In the US that only really helps you in two states: Oregon where a degree is required to be a paramedic and Texas which leads to being licensed instead of Certified but you can work as a certified Paramedic. If you look at some international systems a lot have higher standards. For example in Canada where pay can be 2 to 3 times what it is here, just to become a Primary Care Paramedic, which is their equivalent to the US EMT-B it is required to obtain a 2 year degree once complete and after 3 years of experience they can move on to Advanced Care Paramedic which is an additional year of training. Places in New Zealand and Australia require a Bachelor Degree to obtain empoyment as a Paramedic.
  12. @paramedicmike , I do not disagree with you. But how does the process get started? If we require new EMTs to have degrees or to attend programs that require substantially more education and course work the industry risks a decline in new EMTs entering the profession. In many areas, there is a shortage of EMTs already. Thoughts?
  13. Several services I worked for had dash cams. A couple aircraft for my flight service had cockpit cameras and voice recorders. I think a camera in the back will face some serious HIPAA challenges.
  14. <--- Has an EMS degree. EMS-ers have long complained that they are viewed as the "red-headed step children" or whatever industry they're trying to pawn themselves off to on that given day. Unfortunately, many are unwilling to do what it takes to change their circumstances. Want to be taken seriously? Create entry standards that are more challenging than becoming a barber. Want to be taken seriously? Require basic education standards that go beyond a high school diploma. Want to be taken seriously? Create entry standards that show that those pursuing this as a career give a damn about what they're doing. Fix EMS education and it will have a positive impact on every single other problem facing EMS in the US. Every. Single. One.
  15. I agree that emotions can take away from the facts, but we must also recognize that this is an emotional issue. But as far as facts, what is creating the momentum to have Paramedics degreed?
  16. Oh here we go on this site. It's all over facebook - truly strong feelings about this subject. Let's keep it civil and factually appropriate - no emotions please. That's what has derailed most of the facebook threads - emotions and emotions don't make facts.
  17. who is the keeper of the tapes? who is the keeper of the privacy of these patients? Who has access to these tapes, does the legislature address this in the bill? I've known some truly shady providers and there are some douchebag shit heads out there and it's a shame that we now have to have this type of protection out there for the patient but I'm more a proponent of this bill for the provider's in case they get a accusation lodged against them that isn't true. It has always been the patients word against the medic/provider and on this site as well, we've always crucified the medic before the true facts have been known in some cases, that in essence the patient made it up. then the providers life is ruined. So as long as the tapes are kept private until needed, only authorized people can see the tapes and the media can't get them until the investigation is in full swing, then I'm for this legistation.
  18. No when I clicked on the words design ideas it linked me out to the crate and barrel site. see below screenshot This is what I get when I click the words design ideas - it sends me to crate and barrel's site. Me thinks that wasn't the purpose but maybe again it was.
  19. If a degree is going to be required then someone needs to find the funds to actually pay paramedics a living wage. It’s pitiful how poorly these people are paid.
  20. After the death of a patient, a Maine State Senator is proposing a bill that would require every ambulance in Maine to record patient transports. What are your throughs on this? Does anyone use cameras in their ambulance now either in the front, back or both? What is your policy on fixed cameras in the ambulance?
  21. LOL. We have backend software that links to keywords. Purchases made by entering the site through our link helps the City. Is that where you saw it?
  22. did you mean to link out to the crate and barrel site? if so, I cannot see how the crate and barrel site would translate to a EMS forum shell but I suspect you have an idea how it would. Go on and do your magic.
  23. There has been a lot of chatter on social media regarding a degree requirement for Paramedics to be eligible for certification. What are your thoughts on this?
  24. Hello everyone, We just did a major software update and it appears to have created issues with the site theme. For now, we will be using this one and are investigating different design ideas. I look forward to hearing your feedback on the new look of the site. It should load extremely fast and be much better on mobile devices.
  25. If I am reading the flow chart correctly you have 2 options one is retaking the whole course the other is Remediation with an ambulance service director or another person in a similar position who can attest u have the skills mastered. Candidate must complete a new, state-approved EMT Education Program OR Receive Remediation through Education Program Medical Director or Ambulance Service Medical Director and verifies the candidate's psychomotor skill proficiency. This is documented on a form provided by the EMSRB.
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