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NEMSA WINS IN OREGON


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Hey everyone, kinda new here. We just voted NEMSA in as our representation in Ft. Wayne, IN. It was not a landslide victory (49-40) and it is by no means a done deal. AMR has fought this tooth and nail. First, they waged a very brutal anti-union campaign even going as far as to fire the director of operations because it was determined he was the reason people wanted a union to begin with. Next they filed multiple objections with NLRB, which they lost, and now it appears they will be filing an appeal with DC. Now I want to make this clear, I'm not pro or anti union. Other than the normal AMR BS that seems to be the norm everywhere, this is a fairly descent operation. We are a PUM governed by an ambulance authority. There contract is very specific and they are monitored closely and that makes things here better than most AMR operations, but one does have to wonder why AMR, who has several union operations across the country, would spend this much time and money to fight NEMSA and try to keep them out of Ft. Wayne? 1. Are they scared of NEMSA? 2. Is NEMSA not the organization they appear to be and AMR is looking out for the best interest of it's employees? Well, I have worked here long enough to know that AMR is a for-profit business and ultimately AMR is looking out for #1! They did remove the director operations but if they would have listened to the numerous complaints filed by both the medics and management, this would have never been an issue in the first place. So I believe that option 2 is not the case. NEMSA was started by AMR employees that know how AMR works and I believe that scares them! A union is representation only! They cannot guarantee anything. Your job is not anymore secure being union than it is without one. The only guarantee you get is a contract that both you and the employer goes by, a playbook more or less. It really doesn't matter which union you belong to but there are benefits of having a union that represents ems personnel only. The biggest advantage is they understand your job. Police have the PBA. Firefighters have the IAFF. So it does make sense that ems has it's own as well. Think about it, does a machinist union really understand your job well enough to represent you and your best interests? Maybe, maybe not, but other ems professionals do understand and that could take you a lot further during contract negotiations or other issues.

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Exactly, "not a bit of evidence" dust we cant provide evidence until after "evidence" happens if you go to the store and by a can of guarnteed 20 yr latex green paint and 1) You'll have to take their word for it that its latex. 2) You'll know right away if it green or not. and 3) It will take 20 years to see if the guaruntee is good. I wont be able to provide any evidence until after our contract is setteled, but the NEMSA Oak Valley conract was passed by 100% of the employee's which is remarkable considering you couldnt get 100% of EMS workers to agree that the earth is round.

Evidence will come with time as NEMSA starts to grow and get more contracts. People here have high expectations (there are alot of people crazier than I am) and we'll know if a few months.

Dust I didnt "make a bad carrer choice I/we made a bad union choice not once but twice we've voted out the ATU in 1996 and voted them in 2 years later. Our unoin was so horrible it drug wages down across the entire northwest. I voted no on every ATU contract ever put before me.

More Later.

Carl

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Exactly, "not a bit of evidence" dust we cant provide evidence until after "evidence" happens if you go to the store and by a can of guarnteed 20 yr latex green paint...

Guaranteed? NEMSA gave you a written guarantee? I'd sure like to see that. I want to know what they will be eating in a couple of years. :)

Dust I didnt "make a bad carrer choice I/we made a bad union choice...

Incorrect. You aren't being singled out for crap wages. Look around you. Look at what medics are making nationwide. Look at the comments on this or any other EMS board. You aren't making crap wages because you have a bad union. You are making crap wages because crap wages is simply what EMS makes, by and large. And this didn't happen overnight. It is not a recent development. It has been this way since I started in 1973. So, you either knew or should have known this long before you decided to go to EMT school. Therefore, yes, YOU made a bad career choice. You didn't do your homework or a rudimentary job market analysis before you jumped in. Otherwise you would have known long ago that the field simply did not meet your needs and chosen a more appropriate career. Now you're scapegoating others to cover for your own bad choices and lack of attention to detail (as evidenced by your spelling). Your argument is bogus, and anybody who's been in the field for more than five minutes knows better.

Sorry man. I have no sympathy for you. If you were taking one for the team and trying to do something to improve the profession as a whole, I would at least respect you for your altruism. But you're not. Despite your constant reference to the term "professional," you don't appear to care the slightest bit about the profession. You're just looking out for number one.

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As an EMS provider, 2 things rank in my mind as the most important aspects of my job.

1. The safety of my partner, myself, and my patient.

2. Enough money to pay for my bills and provide for my family. (short-term)

What is NEMSA going to do for either one of these issues?

It is completely up to the personnel of whatever EMS agency you work for to ensure safety and quality of environment. What a Union can do for that? I don't know, and noone has offered any ideas. NEMSA cannot force AMR to buy newer, better, safer equipment. It is incumbant upon me, and my co-workers to make sure that we use our equipment and knowledge to the best of our abilities.

In regards to pay... NEMSA has come up to the North-east with some outrageously high hourly wages that they have garnered in other areas. It looks good, and would look even better on my pay-check.. but is it feasable? Working for as long as I have in this particular system, and understanding the economic stability of AMR's current contracts, I can't see how AMR could afford to up everyon's pay by an average of 3-4 dollars per hour. If they were able to accomplish this, that would cause AMR to lay-off many employees in an attempt to break even. I would rather keep my job at my current rate, then be forced out of it because my new union shot for the moon. I did not get into this industry for money. In fact it was a complete mistake that turned into a career. I know that I could make more money in other sectors of business and society, but there is something about EMS that I have grown to admire. I also know that long-term employment in EMS is not going to lead to early retirement or trust funds for my kids. A couple more dollars from NEMSA really isn't going to change that.

Change can be good, and I'm not advocating against NEMSA, but what really are we trying to change? What I'm gathering from this thread and many others is..... we are trying to change how we are viewed by society and the medical community. NEMSA can't help us there, only we can.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Carl did not say that NEMSA gave the employees a written guarantee. To the best of my knowledge, NEMSA has never done that. As I have stated before, NEMSA is not the Messiah of EMS. NEMSA did state (check out their mission statement on their web site, www.nemsausa.org) that besides providing contracts for their members among other things, they will promote our profession to the general public, that being the point of this discussion. They have done so, so far, by sponsoring youth sports teams, participated in municipal parades, etc with more to come. Our old union never did anything like that. I do want to apologize if I got a little upset on my last post. Dust is very much correct when he says that it is up to us as to how the public views us when we're running calls. An untucked shirt, a backwards baseball cap, unzipped boots, chewing gum while talking to a patient are all things that affect us negatively when it comes to our image and we're the ones that are in control as to how we present ourselves to the public. Having said that, it is just as important that there is an active and focused campaign out there to enhance our image and point out our hard work, professionalism and dedication to our patients. Every day, Nurses, cops and firefighters, through their respective representational organizations, promote themselves and their work. Nurses are angels, cops the finest, firefighters are heroes and we're the "meat wagon". And that is where NEMSA can and should help. It is true that participation in a few parades and the sponsorship of youth sport will not change anything overnight. But when duplicated a thousand times and coupled with growing PR campaigns of all sorts, eventually as is the case with nurses, cops and firefighters, visibility will manifest itself. This will take years, no doubt about it. NEMSA is not a third party in regards to EMT's and paramedics. NEMSA is EMT's and paramedics that decided that EMS has to take a "lean forward" approach or we will continue to stagnate as we have. The fire departments understood this concept beginning in the 80's and implementing it in the 90's. Once the enforcement (and I'm simplifying here) of fire codes had the desired effect of reducing fires (a good thing) it created the side effect of firefighters sitting at the station, twiddling their collective thumbs. Not surprisingly, the chiefs and the fire unions understood that the taxpayers would eventually wonder why thumb twiddling was going on at the station on taxpayer dime. Hence the jump into the transport business (there are exceptions to this of course as some departments were certainly pioneers in the transport aspect). The "fire-medic" is now an integral and well known part of our business and I should certainly give credit to the foresight of the fire leadership and the fire unions regarding the protection of their budgets and salaries. But let's be honest here. They did not take this course out of the goodness of their collective hearts. They did this to secure their future earnings and I don't blame them for that. When it comes to us, it is NEMSA's job to help make sure we get our piece of the EMS pie by actively (TV, radio, internet, newspapers, parades, event sponsoring,etc) promoting our profession. We, as Dust has stated, have to do our part. NEMSA cannot turn your ball cap around, tuck your shirt in, zip your boots or take the gum out of your mouth when you talk to patient. Only YOU can make the decision to be a professional and only then can NEMSA take it from there.

Sincerely, Hugo

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  • 2 months later...

Apparently the NEMSA norcal board has been disabled by their management

for "mud slinging".

NEMSA BOARD:

http://xsorbit30.com/users5/nemsaamrnorcal/index.php

I have started an independent, uncensored group for

all Northern California AMR employees to express their

opinions. Please get involved and meet us there. To

join you must be an AMR employee and add your full

name, county and position.

AMR NORTHERN CALIFORNIA:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/norcalamr/

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Just for the sake if knowing, is AMR in the New York/New Jersey area represented by any union? I thought they (AMR) had no union representation at all.

And for anyone who asks, I am in local 2507 (Uniformed EMTs and Paramedics of the FDNY), a member-agency of District Council 37, American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).

Prior to that, while still working the proprietary (non 9-1-1 responder) ambulances, I was in local 531 of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.

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. Before The IAFF became one of the most powerful lobbying groups in Washington DC., the modern "professional firefighter" was just a fireman, a blue collar vocation.

NEMSA aims to be to EMS what the IAFF is to the firefighter and as much as I disagree with fire doing transports, I can certainly see what the IAFF has done for their membership.

The IAFF also represents EMS. Here in Phoenix the IAFF Local I-60 represents private EMS, and I have been happy with the representation. It aslo ties us in with the fire services better which as we are sister services in this systen, is a good thing.

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  • 2 months later...

This is my first post here, so please go easy on me.

I am a a career Paramedic who has been in EMS for 25 years. I work for a private ambulance company in Sacramento, CA. My company has two divisions, a really small non-emergency one in Sacramento and a rather large 9-1-1 division throughout all of Solano County.

NEMSA came to us about 1.5 years ago. Both divisions voted for and certified NEMSA to represent them individually (rather than together as a single large unit). I started working here just after NEMSA got started in our division.

Everything seemed positive and upward-bound particularly because NEMSA touted their dedication toward EMS needs, which is something LONG overdue for folks like us in the private sector. In the beginning, the union's co-founders, Torren Colcord and Tim Bonifay, along with the vice-president Aaron Pelican, met with us employees directly and rather frequently. The employees and NEMSA drafted a rather impressive contract to propose. Then came the negotiations. In the second full negotiation session, the employer's attorney said they would be standing pat with the terms of the previous union's contract (expired). To my surprise, the NEMSA rep (henceforth Tim Bonifay), quickly acquiesced and we went forward with negotiating a sort of hybrid contract between what we developed and what the company wanted to stick with. The rationale was to obtain a quick settlement as opposed to duking it out over a long period for what we really wanted. This was in particular deference to the fact that our 5% raises in April were postponed (with NO retro) in favor of pursuing a higher percentage NEMSA felt we could get.

Then there was a two-month delay during which-literally-nothing got done. While Tim Bonifay was supposedly out working on fine-tuning our contract negotiating points and getting information regarding insurance, we heard nothing from him. During that period, there was one negotiation meeting scheduled in which he never showed up. No call for heads-up. No email. No nothing. In fact, OUR negotiating team member employees had to track him down to find out what was going on. In a subsequent meeting, Tim called two hours before it was to start and say that he couldn't attend. This was the first in a series of disappointing and shocking actions by NEMSA.

After more delays, the employees complained to Torren and Aaron regarding the lack of representation, citing his prolonged absence and lack of communication. Furthermore, the employees found out that NEMSA would be charging no less than $26, possibly $30 and more, a month for union dues. Why this wasn't discussed up front in the first place is beyond me. Anyway, that set off the EMTs because they make practically peanuts, especially the part-time folks. Then we found out that Torren and Aaron were both also working for AMR, our largest and most serious competitor in Sacramento County. This to us seemed a grave conflict of interest. More and more, we began to have serious concerns about NEMSA's ability to function professionally. We discovered that Tim attempted-at least once or twice-to get our manager to quickly sign the contract we had discussed up to that point and "get it over with" behind our backs when the two of them met up during other union matters (keep in mind all this time they were in negotations regarding Solano County employees' contract). Our manager declined, saying she felt it wasn't right because the action would have circmvented the employees' negotiating team knowledge and participatin (she smartly recognized that would have caused her more trouble than for NEMSA). That, plus the limited, wishy-washy representation we were getting, prompted a series of discussions pertaining to possible de-certification of NEMSA. Torren and Aaron suggested we hold an in-house vote and they would gracefully "bow out" if the employees decided not to retain them. This was said at a shop meeting with the majority of employees attending. So, a vote was held and by a 1-point margin, it was decided we didn't want NEMSA after all.

Sadly, NEMSA didn't back out gracefully as they promised. In fact, they basically had told the management that no such statement was made by them, essentially implicating a dozen people as liars. This ruffled our feathers even more. As the weeks went by we waited patiently for the certification date to arrive in order to apply to the National Labor Relations Board for de-certification. Weeks became months. During that time, nobody on the negotiating team received any phone calls or emails from anyone at NEMSA. This was despite the last thing NEMSA needed was for everyone in Solano County to find out that our tiny little Sacramento division gave them the boot. After all, it seemed, we were the ones who stood to gain the most out of having a union.

During this long period of silence, we learned that our Solano County counterparts have been (and continue) paying $30 to $40 a month in union dues for nearly a year WITHOUT A CONTRACT. Yes, NEMSA continues to collect dues when they're technically not supposed to. Then we learned that Tim got up and walked out of a contract session at least once all flustered, etc. under the pressure of questions and concerns aired. We had been hearing a lot of interesting and appalling things occurring in Solano County with regard to NEMSA. Unfortunately, our fellow employees there are still diving headlong into whatever NEMSA says they stand to gain. We have heard and still hear that it's looking more and more like a strike is on the horizon. Well, a strike DID happen at Piner's Ambulance in Napa County at the behest of NEMSA and failed negotiations. That was settled a while ago and, from what I've heard, it sounds like the employees there didn't actually gain much of anything. Oh, the icing on the cake: AMR, a fellow NEMSA unit, was kicking overflow calls to local competitors in our county who are NOT members of NEMSA and NEMSA didn't say a word to them. In fact, someone at NEMSA said "There's nothing we can do about it." During that time, we lost some business. Here's another interesting point: I recently discussed with my boss in retrospect what we all went through here and she mentioned a discussion she had with Torren some time ago. She brought up to him the possibility that our company could eventually bid for the lucrative local 9-1-1 contracts in the future and asked him if he, as NEMSA, would back our company up at that time. He said "no" (essentially because of his ties with AMR). If THAT didn't kick us in the seat of our pants...after all, ours is a much older -albeit smaller- established operation in this area (since 1979, in place long before AMR even existed!).

The certification date came and went so we contacted the NLRB and filed or application for de-certification. The NLRB informed NEMSA but got no reply for a very long time. After the hearing date was pushed back and more waiting, NEMSA finally sent a letter withdrawing their interest in representing our Sacramento division. So by default, we are no longer represented by NEMSA or anyone else. Interestingly, we as employees have approached our boss and have accomplished some good things in negotiating with her directly. We FINALLY-just now- got the really nice raise (though not retro) we wanted that NEMSA couldn't get for us (it all stalled at 5%, which was the rock bottom). Things are moving forward once again and we're all happier and less stressed here.

Meanwhile, we've learned that NEMSA's Aaron Pelican has been showing up for the negotiation meetings and not saying a single word. He just sits there, taking notes and NOT making eye contact with anyone. In fact-and this is very interesting-NEMSA has HIRED AN OUTSIDE INDEPENDENT ATTORNEY to speak for them at these meetings. It appears NEMSA won't even speak for itself and our fellow employees are paying for this??? Aren't NEMSA negotiators supposedly "experienced attorneys who will represent you" as advertised in their brochures and web site? Apparently, our counterparts in Solano County are blind, stupid or just brainwashed by NEMSA because they're going along with it and a bunch of other amazingly unrealistic stuff without saying anything (that we know of). Apparently, from what we heard, they turned down our company's offer of 16% in favor of something much more lucrative. Wow. Hell, even 5% is better than what most people get!

All the meanwhile, Torren Colcord cuts himself well over $100,000 in salary from union dues collected AND retros himself another amount of well over $100,000. I believe this is in addition to whatever he's earned (or earning) from AMR. Plus he's obtained a Hummer or two for himself and/or some other significant person connected to NEMSA. Interestingly, the October 6th, 2006 Sacramento Business Journal reports that Torren was found by a court to be liable for fraud, trade-secret theft, breach of fiduciary duty and unfair business practices when he started NEMSA while working for SEIU. The decision also names Tim Bonifay (co-founder) and one other person and will order Tim and Torren to each pay back more than $40,000 in pay and benefits, plus levies $60,000 in punitive damages against Torren. This is on top of a potential order for the three defendants to pay SEIU back some $300,000. Tim has disassociated himself from NEMSA and he's supposedly lost his home and his car, etc. beause of getting shafted by NEMSA.

Now, NEMSA is really struggling with PR and keeping other bargaining units from slipping through their fingers. AMR, their biggest group with over 2,500 workers in Northern California, narrowly rejected the first proposed contract from them in June. NEMSA re-tooled the contract deal and made it a little sweeter to the employees. New ballots were sent out for voting on the contract again. They were due back just two days ago, so it'll be interesting to see what the results are. We hear rumblings that AMR employees now may want to get out from under NEMSA as well. In fact, when hints of a potential strike could have occurred in our division (or even in Solano County, for that matter), NEMSA told all of us that we'd nothing to worry about because they would find jobs for us - with AMR. Funny, but that's about the same thing they told the Piner's folks. In fact, when Piner's was at strike, guess which outside ambulance service it was who got to run Piner's non-emergency stuff instead of the already established mutual aid company (us)? AMR. I mean, who is NEMSA REALLY working for?

Not everything I have mentioned here is definitive or complete. It's just what I can say in a nutshell. I write this because -while I think an EMS-dedicated union is a GOOD thing, NEMSA itself is NOT. I just hope that what I -and others- say can provide some insight as to the dangers involved with becoming a part of NEMSA. While they're really not bad people, they just don't know what the hell they're doing. I've found out that they've not even had any formal board meetings! We're sad that our brothers and sisters in Solano County are following NEMSA blindly into the abyss but that's their choice. Hopefully others will think with more caution before falling foot loose and head long into the hype that is NEMSA. Yeah, our wages, bennies and working conditions in the private sector suck to no end, but I would MUCH rather we not fork out an additional $30-$40 a month (and more plus headaches) for the same, marginally better, or worse!

Thanks for letting me stand on my little soap box in your town square today. :D

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Thanks for the insight, mtnmedic, and welcome to The City!

But as a former resident, I have to say that Solano County sucks, so don't waste any tears on their behalf. :)

As many of us expected, NEMSA talks a good game, and puts on a great dog-and-pony show, but fails miserably at achieving anything of value that was not achievable by its predecessor. Typical union politics. Sell you a bill of goods, get your name on the dotted line, then abandon you knowing that you now have nobody else to run to. So, where exactly are all these dues being spent anyhow? Anybody looking into that?

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