48 replies to this topic

[zmedic]

It seems like you guys arent that fond of VAC's. Rookies got to get experience from somewhere.

My issue isn't that people volunteer, it's that they are volunteering by trying to jump calls rather than being part of a 911 system. I understand that a lot of volunteer groups were there before FDNY came in, but if the community isn't saying "we need more coverage, lets have a volunteer service" then something has to change. And I think it is. Look up what is going on with FDNY and Aviation Fire Department.

It seems like there are groups that are volunteer and have a decent system in NYC. Columbia EMS for the university, Central Park Medical, Hatzola. People call them directly, bypassing 911. Which I think is fine. But I don't think I'd work for a service that's operational plan was "let's listen to a scanner and try to get there first."

As a side note, I would think there would be legal issues to jumping calls. I could see a lawyer argue if something went wrong on a call "this person called 911, they expected an ambulance to show up. You arrived from your volunteer ambulance, that patient assumed that you were sent and thats why they agreed to treatment from you."

Not saying that the vollys are more likely to do something wrong. But from a legal stand point one could argue that you as protected as an agency that was requested by the caller.

I feel the frustration for the people who are volunteering. I looked into it years ago and was annoyed I couldn't just work on an ambulance in the summers during college in NYC, that I had to either go full time with FDNY or try to get on with a hospital that wanted more previous 911 experience.

[Asysin2leads]

The FDNY is not trying to keep volunteer services out of response. They are pushing very hard to reign in volunteer ambulance services, to keep a well ordered system. This is especially true for MCIs. After 9/11, i.e. "The clusterfuck of the century", the FDNY has gone to great lengths to standardize the use of volunteer ambulance services. I am not exactly sure of the entire procedure, but basically a volunteer ambulance service sends in a sheet about their staffing to the FDNY and then they get assigned a unit designation and respond to 911 calls. At least that's the way its supposed to happen. Usually its more the volunteer ambulance gets called by whatever system is in place for their little outfit and they respond.
Volunteer systems in the greater New York (The five boroughs, Yonkers, Nassau, Suffolk, and most of New Jersey) are... special. They are not like volunteer systems in most places where volunteer services serve a population that otherwise would not have 911 services. They have more funding than God through donations, and very powerful political influences, which is why the EMS system in a good portion of the same area is beyond help. You want to volunteer and make a difference? Join the damn Red Cross or work an ER in Haiti or Somalia or some place. Be a professional or let them do their jobs. That's my opinion.

[Kiwiology]

I agree asys there really is no place for these "do good volunteers" in a jurisdiction which already has a well established emergency ambulance response; they are free to go join the FDNY or a 911 sponsor hospital that provides EMS

[Chief1C]

Dress as a fish and feed yourself to a whale, brew

[student medic]

you guys talk like its so easy to get into FDNY. Im just volunteering until i can get into FDNY. I think vollies are a great way to get exp. & learn the ropes & hopefully I'll get hired before everyone else that was too lazy to volunteer & can't even fill out a PCR or 800 a bus

[Vorenus]

you guys talk like its so easy to get into FDNY. Im just volunteering until i can get into FDNY. I think vollies are a great way to get exp. & learn the ropes & hopefully I'll get hired before everyone else that was too lazy to volunteer & can't even fill out a PCR or 800 a bus

You don`t seem to grasp the point of the criticism here - it`s not about vollies as a whole, it`s about scanning the official channels and riding the streets in an attempt to just sit on a truck when it`s not really needed, for a full-time service is available and already dispatched.
EMS is no playground, where everyone who wants a ride on a carussel is free to just skip in when he`s jolly to do so.

[Kiwiology]

You don`t seem to grasp the point of the criticism here - it`s not about vollies as a whole, it`s about scanning the official channels and riding the streets in an attempt to just sit on a truck when it`s not really needed, for a full-time service is available and already dispatched.
EMS is no playground, where everyone who wants a ride on a carussel is free to just skip in when he`s jolly to do so.

mein post excellent das wunderbar ja!

um nein speak deustche just so we are clear lol

Vorenus is right a bunch of volunteers running around when FDNY EMS already exists and is capable of resopnding is not.appropriate

[Richard B the EMT]

Peninsula Volunteer Ambulance Corps (PVAC) was formed, in 1973, as both addition to, and alternative to, the municipal 9-1-1 ambulances. The founders felt we were underserved by "the city" (of New York), which at the time had 4 BLS and Zero ALS ambulances assigned the isolated area of the Rockaway Peninsula. The city's response was to remove (!) 2 of the ambulances, stating it was because there now was a VAC with 2 units serving the area. This actually prompted my first ever letter to the editor of the newspaper giving this information, condemning the action, due to the need of additional ambulances that had resulted in the VAC being formed in the first place.

Volunteer systems in the greater New York (The five boroughs, Yonkers, Nassau, Suffolk, and most of New Jersey) are... special. They are not like volunteer systems in most places where volunteer services serve a population that otherwise would not have 911 services. They have more funding than God through donations

VAC and VAS outside of (specifically) NYC and Yonkers are supported through the tax base. Inside these areas, it is by direct voluntary charitable donations by the residents. If the VAC and VAS have all that money, then why did PVAC go under due to underfunding in 1996, and other VAS/VAC groups, from 1974 to the present?


Note to new EMT City members: We have 2 major "groups" here, the paid personnel who dislike the concept of people doing for free what they get paid for, and the volunteers, who claim the paid personnel are vultures. I'm a part of the smallest 3rd group, somewhere in between them.

[zmedic]

There are those of use who have worked both paid and as volunteer. This isn't a volly v paid discussion. This is a "what is the role of volunteers within an established 911 system.

[Richard B the EMT]

There are those of use who have worked both paid and as volunteer. This isn't a volly v paid discussion. This is a "what is the role of volunteers within an established 911 system.

I started Volly, went paid at the same time, and continued as paid after the VAC went under. I totally agree. There are several strings going that battle already.