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Selling EMS equipment

37 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I was looking on CL today for some EMS pants or boots. I came across this post. When does it become illegal to sell this stuff? I mean thru a dealer who check and is qualified to sell the items to the PROPER personnel I can see that. But some of the things I have seen for sale online thru private citizens is unreal!! I have seen different items online for sale that concern me should it get into the wrong hands. Anyone know is selling things like this is legal??

http://denver.craigslist.org/hab/1733737839.html

1 New in Box, Sterility and packaging intact. Complete components. Never opened, no holes in wrapper. Sealed and sterile.

4mm Adult size

$90

Other EMS and ALS medical supplies available.

I am always looking for hospital/Military grade medical supplies and equipment. Please contact me if you have something to sell.

Please email me through the CL link

Thank you

Description:

The Rusch QuickTrach allows quick and safe access for ventilation in the presence of acute respiratory distress with upper airway obstruction. The kit consists of a pre-assembled emergency cricothyrotomy unit with a 10 milliliter syringe attached to a padded neck strap and a connecting tube.

Components:

1 Quicktrach, sterile with stopper

1 Syringe

1 Connecting tube with 15 mm adapter

1 Cushion neckband

tags:

EMT Paramedic nurse medic equipment first aid airway intubation laryngoscope iv saline trauma tracheotomy crickit narp nar kerlix ifak bvm bandage celox quickclot quikclot ambulance

Buyer: please use good judgment, and discretion. To be used only by qualified, certified and trained personnel.

* Location: South Metro

* it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

image 1733737839-0 image 1733737839-1

PostingID: 1733737839

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Posted · Report post

I don't think that a individual can sell a medical product like that without some sort of healthcare sales license or permit.

I know that if it says use restricted to a doctors order then I think the seller needs to be a qualified healthcare sales outlet.

Plus, are you going to trust someone on craigslist(killerslist,whoreslist) to guarantee the safety and quality of this device for your patients?

I would go witha qualified seller

Plus, how do you know the stuff wasn't missing on the local ems agencies dock and ended up on craigslist.

At least with Ebay you can verify the seller identity or require him to give you proof or you can report him. ON craigslist you don't have that option.

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Posted · Report post

If they're reselling medical equipment, they need a permit to do that. eg. "Reseller License" If they're selling controlled substances and devices, they need a permit and DEA License to do that. Consider in some cases, however, that it may be a family selling products left behind from the death of a post-surgical or cancer patient. This guy, sounds like one of those ZombieSquad ppl that buy crap just because they can.

If you ever look close, even some of the most basic equipment we use, has "Federal Law restricts this device to sale by or on the order of a physician". I just read it off the package of a Yankauer.

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Posted · Report post

I may have not stated clearly enough that I would NEVER purchase anything like that from CL. I have bought items for my home before such as dressers and the like, and I think even a bp cuff for school.

I just don't know the point WHEN it becomes illegal. I think the Cric kit should be illegal. But who do you report the unlawful selling of these items??

Defibs (IMO) should be illegal to sell unless to a licensed provider AND it is from a dealer, you never know what you are getting or why they are selling it. Is someone REALLY going to test it to see if it works properly?? I dont believe it is something that you can jsut take somewhere to get it checked. Who knows maybe it is and I am incorrect. Irregardless it scares the tar outta me. Iv setups ok sure some ppl know how to do it and I am sure it will be a hey wanna see a cool party trick?? (I can see a new Darwin Award brewing)

These items who are to be used by trained personnel should be monitored. I am a Basic I do not need a shiny intubation setup. I also would not be intubating anyone outside of work where I am protected.

At what point is the line drawn?? What items have ya'all seen for sale like this?

If they're reselling medical equipment, they need a permit to do that. eg. "Reseller License" If they're selling controlled substances and devices, they need a permit and DEA License to do that. Consider in some cases, however, that it may be a family selling products left behind from the death of a post-surgical or cancer patient. This guy, sounds like one of those ZombieSquad ppl that buy crap just because they can.

If you ever look close, even some of the most basic equipment we use, has "Federal Law restricts this device to sale by or on the order of a physician". I just read it off the package of a Yankauer.

I agree! However it is difficult to monitor these items. I would be willing to bet that most if not all of these items are stolen from who knows where.

Wow on a suction catheter?? You can get suction devices online. I have never got one but I would think you would be able to get the tips/catheters from the places that sell them to. So does that mean that a Yankauer is an RX device?

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Posted · Report post

I found that ad a while back and was wondering the same thing :P

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Posted · Report post

If you look on the top right of the CL post, there is a box where you can "flag" the ad. It should say something like spam, categorized wrong, or prohibited. I flagged it already because, well... it is illegal to sell something like that. Everyone else should flag it too.

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Posted · Report post

If you look on the top right of the CL post, there is a box where you can "flag" the ad. It should say something like spam, categorized wrong, or prohibited. I flagged it already because, well... it is illegal to sell something like that. Everyone else should flag it too.

Flagging it will only remove this post, he can create 100 more.

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Posted · Report post

Wow on a suction catheter?? You can get suction devices online. I have never got one but I would think you would be able to get the tips/catheters from the places that sell them to. So does that mean that a Yankauer is an RX device?

You haven't seen that before? Pretty much all medical supplies say that, ems and otherwise. I have been a phlebotomist for 5 years, and used to have to carry all my supplies in my trunk. The needles and tubes and stuff all had that physican warning on them. I don't think that it means you had an actual RX for it, but that it can't be sold to just anybody. ie: the lab could buy them but I couldn't go out and say hey I want to buy my own needles. But I am not entirely sure. But I have seen that warning on almost everything.

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Posted · Report post

Hmmm, you got me to thinking. Now, I have to find out which physician wrote out the prescription for my house of worship to purchase their new AED for PAD (Public Access Defibrillation) purposes, and where they got it.

(Actually, they got it after my brother in law collapsed at services some months ago. He's fine now, by the way.)

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Posted · Report post

You haven't seen that before? Pretty much all medical supplies say that, ems and otherwise. I have been a phlebotomist for 5 years, and used to have to carry all my supplies in my trunk. The needles and tubes and stuff all had that physican warning on them. I don't think that it means you had an actual RX for it, but that it can't be sold to just anybody. ie: the lab could buy them but I couldn't go out and say hey I want to buy my own needles. But I am not entirely sure. But I have seen that warning on almost everything.

No I have not seen it. I suppose I dont read the packages very well unless it has a size or whatever on it that I need. Like needle size or the exp date. But I have never read the "small print". I think I will be reading more lol.

So what does it mean a physicians "warning" umm you can purchase this but it is not smart to use it unless trained? Is it more of a we would rather you not, instead of this is an RX item? As opposed to DO NOT use unless trained and or under a Drs care/direction.

Flagging it will only remove this post, he can create 100 more.

I agree it should be flagged. However I did not flag it because I wanted the folks on here to be able to see the AD before I flagged it.

But flagging will only get this person to repost it and make it to the top where some Zombie Slayer (or whatever the hell those wierdos are) will continue to do this crap. I mean how can you report something like that. To who?? PD aint going to do much.

This is putting others in danger by selling things like this not regulated. What about a resale to a supply company where THEY can send it to the manufacturer (for defibs and etc items like that) to get the item in question refurbished and recycled so to speak.

This needs to stop!! It scares the hell out of me.

I mean cmon, Mr and Mrs Smith go camping with the Jones family. Mrs Smith gets injured and needs an airway. Mr Jones who is a gas station attendant (aka Zombie Slayer) had a Cric Kit in his First Aid Bag. Mr Jones says don't worry I can help I saw this on TV once I will fix you!! (Pauses to put his cape on) Granted it was an episode of Trauma (Dammn you Rabbit :D ) that he saw and something on you tube describing how to do it and he proceeds to Cric her in the process kills her. Cause the only thing Mr Jones has experience in "First Aid" is getting Gas out of his eye cause he cant even pump a freaking hose (that was for dust).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kahoOfAndDc

Well there you go folks I watched the video and let me tell you I feel ready!! Anyone wanna go camping with me I'll bring the beer and Cric Kit!!! Cause I watched a youtube video!! :beer::thumbsup:

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Posted · Report post

Selling that stuff is probably legal but when some one goes to use it and there not licensed then thats a problem. Personally if you buy that stuff off of craigs list your an id10t lord knows where that stuffs been or it might be expired or even punctured.

If it was me I would not buy that sort of thing off of ebay and craigslist. There are plenty of places online to buy that stuff are alot better besides criagslist.

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Posted · Report post

eBay is a true money saver for poor EMS. I bought four KED's on there, brand new, US Gov't. Surplus, $5 each. I've bought a lot of collectibles, EMS wise, but alot of good supplies, very cheap. Bulk items, cases, etc., pediatric boards. Things that we need, but really can't afford to buy MSRP. Bought some stuff for the WSAR Squad, a SKED, they're expensive, it was only $99, new in box. I like to pick out a few reputable sellers, and stick with them. But I'm always interested in a deal too.

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I know that I have things at home in my home jump bag that I would never be able to use on the street. The man who performed my wedding and close friend of mine did 2 tours in Vietnam as a special forces medic. His gift to me for going to paramedic school (under the instructions to never use it on the street) was a OD 1972 Special Forces field surgical kit. Would I(or should I) be able to buy it? No not legally, but it is the best damn splinter kit in the world. Guess I have a little zombie hunter in me too.

Fireman1037

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Posted · Report post

I know that I have things at home in my home jump bag that I would never be able to use on the street. The man who performed my wedding and close friend of mine did 2 tours in Vietnam as a special forces medic. His gift to me for going to paramedic school (under the instructions to never use it on the street) was a OD 1972 Special Forces field surgical kit. Would I(or should I) be able to buy it? No not legally, but it is the best damn splinter kit in the world. Guess I have a little zombie hunter in me too.

Fireman1037

Something like that is classic a keepsake and collectible. Owning it has meaning. Got and pics of it?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I guess you never really realize what people will sell without realizing it's not ok. I know this is illegal here... partly because you can't put a siren on a non-emergency vehicle. Also because you have to have a prescription for an AED.

http://minneapolis.c...1734535855.html

Oh, and I'm with mrsbull, it scares the heck out of me that people would sell/buy this stuff secondhand. especially the more ALS stuff.

EDIT: repaired link

Edited by BlissEMT
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Posted (edited) · Report post

I guess you never really realize what people will sell without realizing it's not ok. I know this is illegal here... partly because you can't put a siren on a non-emergency vehicle. Also because you have to have a prescription for an AED.

http://minneapolis.c...1734535855.html

Oh, and I'm with mrsbull, it scares the heck out of me that people would sell/buy this stuff secondhand. especially the more ALS stuff.

EDIT: repaired link

ummmmm the post says the light bar is Orange? Last I knew orange was leagle to have for everyone as for AEDs they are becomeing like fire bottles.

Edited by +medic
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Posted · Report post

Does having a siren as a part of the car's burglar alarm system constitute an illegal (separate category from annoying) siren? Due to lack of space under the hood, I have no emergency siren in my current vehicle, but do own 3 electronic siren boxes, 2 siren speakers for the same, 2 older style motor driven sirens, and a siren used as a car burglar alarm (see link http://www.jcwhitney.com/mini-motor-driven-sirens/p2001354.jcwx).

I also advise all that in the past, I was authorized "Red Lights and Siren" privileges with my VAC, under NY State Vehicle and Traffic law #115C.

Section 115-c. Emergency Ambulance Service Vehicle. An emergency ambulance service vehicle shall be defined

as an appropriately equipped motor vehicle owned or operated by an ambulance service as defined in section three

thousand one of the public health law and used for the purpose of transporting emergency medical personnel and

equipment to sick or injured persons.

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Posted · Report post

Amber is not an emergency color. And anyone can buy certain types of AED.

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Richard if the siren is part of a buglar alarm and not used for another reason then no its not illegal. Just as anyone can have any number of strobes, wig wags, sirens, what-have-yous on their vehicle as long as they are used "off-road" ie car shows, events, parades. Using them on the streets to move traffic is illegal and actually, depending on the officer can be a crime.

Here in NJ we need a permit for blue or red lights. Blue being for EMS and fire with red for Captains and Cheifs. We are allowed to have electric horns but not sirens unless we are chief or captain.

1. Section 1 of P.L.1977, c.223 (C.39:3-54.7) is read as follows:

1. An active member in good standing of a volunteer fire company or a volunteer first aid or rescue squad recognized by and rendering service in any municipality may display on any motor vehicle driven by him an emergency warning light or lights or an electronic horn, approved by the director, or both light or lights and electronic horn as provided in this act. The Director of Motor Vehicles shall not require the member to specify on which motor vehicles the emergency warning light or lights or the electronic horn may be mounted. "Electronic horn" means a non-pneumatic, non-wavering electronic, audible warning device. 20 (cf: P.L.1995, c.37, s.1)

There is alot more to the law such as the part about red lights, mounting locations, use and the newly added (but never informed to the public) section about driver haveing to pull over to give you the same courtsy that an ambulance or fire truck gets.

... that the drivers of non-emergency vehicles upon any highway shall yield the right of way to the vehicle of any member of a volunteer fire company or a volunteer first aid or rescue squad displaying emergency warning lights or an electronic horn in the same manner as is provided for authorized emergency vehicles pursuant to R.S.39:4-92.(cf: P.L.1977, c.223, s.6)

As far as selling equipment, if its not needed to be sterile or for life saving measures (aeds, cricks, ect) then I really dont see a problem with it. I bought some stuff off Ebay that I carry with me. Scissors, tape, gauze rolls, gloves, bags, tools. Nothing a trip to the supply store couldn't get me but the prices were good for bulk (the gloves, tape and gauze). As far as AEDs and the like, NO that should be regulated. I can see buying training ones (the ones that dont really work just simulate everything) as that would be good to keep your skills up but working stuff should need proper ID and orders to get. I am one of the supply guys on my squad and have a card with the Squad name and Rx number on it to go to the local supplier and purchase stuff like airways, meds, ect. but when I get there I still have to give my DL so if anything gets hinky they know who to blame even though the guy knows me by now.

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Posted · Report post

ummmmm the post says the light bar is Orange? Last I knew orange was leagle to have for everyone as for AEDs they are becomeing like fire bottles.

Ooh, you're right, that was my bad. :rolleyes2:

Amber is not an emergency color. And anyone can buy certain types of AED.

Um... not here. My CPR instructor had to fight with the AED supplier to get the trainers without a prescription. A friend of mine in rural EMS carries one in her car, and her Medical Director had to put the order in writing in order for her to get an AED for her work vehicle. If it's a hassle to get them in those situations, they definitely should NOT be sold on craigslist or e-bay without some kind of inspection, and I'm not even sure if that's possible.

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Ooh, you're right, that was my bad. :rolleyes2:

Um... not here. My CPR instructor had to fight with the AED supplier to get the trainers without a prescription. A friend of mine in rural EMS carries one in her car, and her Medical Director had to put the order in writing in order for her to get an AED for her work vehicle. If it's a hassle to get them in those situations, they definitely should NOT be sold on craigslist or e-bay without some kind of inspection, and I'm not even sure if that's possible.

I get a magazine sent to my house from Channing bates, Can order an AED no problem no Rx needed.

http://www.americanaed.com/

plenty of websites that sell them too

Edited by tskstorm
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Posted · Report post

AED Superstore.. If you need an Rx to get the one you want, they'll get one for you! I've purchased about a dozen from there, and more from this little Continuing Medical Education place in Deerfield Beach, Fl... to resell, sometimes on eBay. I had a license to do so, until 12/1/09. EMS Education is an expensive business, training aids are often extremely costly, so I did my best to lessen that, and pay my bills.

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Posted · Report post

I get a magazine sent to my house from Channing bates, Can order an AED no problem no Rx needed.

http://www.americanaed.com/

plenty of websites that sell them too

AED Superstore.. If you need an Rx to get the one you want, they'll get one for you! I've purchased about a dozen from there, and more from this little Continuing Medical Education place in Deerfield Beach, Fl... to resell, sometimes on eBay. I had a license to do so, until 12/1/09. EMS Education is an expensive business, training aids are often extremely costly, so I did my best to lessen that, and pay my bills.

Well, thanks guys, I stand corrected. I guess MN just sucks as far as making EMS education easier for anybody.

Thanks for the info. Still scares me to think of buying second hand off craigslist, where there's no reputation on the sellers...

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Posted · Report post

You can own an MRI machine if you so wish, and can afford. You can own equipment to do all sorts of surgery (minus drugs of course unless you have a script). The problem lies in when you go from "souvenir" to practical use.

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AAron you work on getting an MRI machine ... I'll work on making it useable lol

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