New Zeland medics.

[medic82942003]

If your in this job for money, your working in the wrong job. Amen!

Edited December 3, 2009 by medic82942003

[chbare]

I dont have a bad opinion about nurses, I just said its not for me. I am not in this job for the money thats for sure. Whats your problem ccbare or whetever your name is, You sound a little burnt out , maybee you need to look for a new profession?

How did you get that I am burnt out? I asked valid questions and no where did I indicate that I am burned out. If you do not like what I said or I somehow offended you, perhaps you should let me know. In addition, you did not say nursing is "not for me." You stated nursing was cut throat medicine and hinted at your displeasure of "drama queen" and "burned out" nurses.

Take care,

chbare.

"Why would you want to go to New Zealand and attempt to obtain work as a Basic Life Support provider when you will have a degree in nursing?

No offense to New Zealand providers; however, things do not add up in my mind. True, I worked over seas as an Intermediate Life Support Paramedic; however, the pay was just a bit better.

Take care,

chbare. "

This was my original post. Please point out where I offended you or put you down. In addition, please identify where I failed to express my opinion, put anybody down, or made "gutless" comments.

Take care,

chbare.

[medic82942003]

Sorry chbare, No glasses on when I posted, wrong blog, wrong name. Sorry about that. My apologies.

Thats 0-2 I am batting. As we say in ther states, my bad. I apoligize.

[chbare]

No worries mate.

Take care,

chbare.

[answeringthecall]

Hi all,

I just wanted to say thank you to Kiwimedic for the great and comprehensive information on the system in NZ. As a new student paramedic in NZ, I found it quite clarifying! (as much as things can be clarified at this point...). My understanding is that St John will soon be adopting a BLS-ILS-ALS type system as opposed to the current PC1/2, AO, Paramedic, Upskilled Paramedic, AP system they currently use.

I have just finished the first year of my paramedic degree at AUT in Auckland and am about to transfer to Whitireia in Wellington for the completing two years. I am very curious to see how Welly Free compares to St J, particularly in terms of culture. I get the impression that Welly Free is a little more... progressive? Anyway, it will be interesting to compare the experience of both major ambulance employers in NZ.

Anyway, thanks again Kiwimedic, I actually found the overview quite helpful :-)

P.S. NZ is a great place to live and a pretty good place to be employed as a paramedic. Two good reasons to move here I reckon, let alone the adventure of experiencing a new country! :-)

[Kiwiology]

The whole ambulance sector is adopting the changes moving to three levels and removing ambulance education from the NZQA system to the University model. I never liked the NZQA system to be honest; and personally I feel it's totally inappropriate for paramedic education - might not have been that way in 1995 but it's outlived its usefulness by almost a decade I think.

It seems we're going back to the days of NAOTS and national training but unfortunately the Lifepak 10 and Star of Life patches (gosh I miss those!) aren't coming along for the ride.

Our "new" system will be a hybrid of the Canadian/Australian system; it's a shame we can't abolish the Ambulance Officer/Ambulance Technician level altogether but such is dreaming!

[aussiephil]

While we are trying to adopt the University model, it so far has not bee a sucess for a number of reasons.

Firstly, the Paramedic degree is, in many cases run as a simultaneous course to Nursing. Many of the students are doing it so they have 2 qualifications, not 1. This means that, for example, out of a class of over 200, 40 were interested in Paramedics as a career. This 40 then have to meet the criteria for application & 20 MAY get through.

Secondly there is an expectation from them that they will be Intensive Care from the day they start, that they should not have to compete with everyone else & that they deserve it more than everyone else.

Thirdly, many (before you jump on me, I did say many) have little or no life experience & lack the people skills to do this job properly. The system that my state currently has in place for general entry is 3 years to qualify, 4 years before you can apply to become a IC Paramedic. This allows time for people skills to develop, & with good training officers, problems can be seen & sorted to extend the careers of people.

[Kiwiology]

I recently got to see a very interesting presentation by Peter O'Merra from Charles Sturt University in NSW and his take on Paramedic education as it applies to ASNSW who apparently are big pushers of the Degree model.

He said the number one problem is the average applicant age is < 20 and they have a whole host of problems with maturity and life experience. I have seen what he is talking about first hand and loathe these 19 year old kids who think they can be ALS practitioners on Day 2 of the program.

Yet to critically analyse that, my local RN program take 18 year old ex-school kids with very few pre-entry requirements, it's basically open entry provided you have basic sciences and immunisations. Why is it we hold up the ambulance service to be somehow silo'd and separated and require XY and Z amount of life/work experience and these other traits which are generally not required for entry into any of the other 3 year health discipline degrees?

If you are no good at talking to people you're going to be no better at it in a nice, controlled emergency department than you are upside down in a ditch; if your math sucks you're not going to be any better at figuring out the deficient quantity of some vitamin on your dietitian degree than you are diluting adrenaline to 1mg/ml as a paramedic. If you're a know-it-all you're probably going to get just as much dissent from the physiotherapy program than the paramedics.

I think the Degree is a good way to go but the Degree does not match the other health professions in practice. Nursing, physical therapy, dietetics, dentistry etc all have one "core" level; a nurse is a nurse is a nurse, a dentist is a dentist is a dentist yet in the ambulance service there are at least two, and sometimes up to three, four, or five different "levels" of provider. The Fire Service is the same, there is no "basic" or "advanced" firefighting; a different "level" of Firefighter is not required to put out a house fire or cut a person from a car, they are all the same, can do the same things. The higher levels of Firefighter are more about people and resource management than actual skill variation. If you are a basic level ambo you can't touch the IV kit or the intubation roll, the drug roll certainly not, yet the Fire Service doesn't say to a qualified firefighter "well you can't touch the jaws of life, you can't use the standpipes and you must call for backup to get somebody qualified to use the high pressure delivery!" yet in the ambulance service this is totally acceptable!

There is certainly a modal shift in the ambulance services around the world away from the current BLS/ALS/ILS levels to a "core" level with an extension or two above that. Australia is a good example, most states only have two levels, New Zealand will have two levels come 2012 but retain the BLS volunteer level as well (we just can't get rid of it that easy or it'd be gone if I had my say), the UK is moving towards all-Paramedic level ambulances and many American systems already operate at an all ALS level.

The Degree would be better aligned with a service model that (like all other health professions) has a basic "core" level which you get after a four year degree; in other words a totally ALS model where you don't have to go through two or three or five different levels. There could be sub-specialties like critical care transport or flight or neonatal transfer but there is no reason if we structure the program right that we need to tier the levels like we do at the moment, it's inconsistent with most other health professions.

[aussiephil]

I recently got to see a very interesting presentation by Peter O'Merra from Charles Sturt University in NSW and his take on Paramedic education as it applies to ASNSW who apparently are big pushers of the Degree model.

He said the number one problem is the average applicant age is < 20 and they have a whole host of problems with maturity and life experience. I have seen what he is talking about first hand and loathe these 19 year old kids who think they can be ALS practitioners on Day 2 of the program.

Yet to critically analyse that, my local RN program take 18 year old ex-school kids with very few pre-entry requirements, it's basically open entry provided you have basic sciences and immunisations. Why is it we hold up the ambulance service to be somehow silo'd and separated and require XY and Z amount of life/work experience and these other traits which are generally not required for entry into any of the other 3 year health discipline degrees?

If you are no good at talking to people you're going to be no better at it in a nice, controlled emergency department than you are upside down in a ditch; if your math sucks you're not going to be any better at figuring out the deficient quantity of some vitamin on your dietitian degree than you are diluting adrenaline to 1mg/ml as a paramedic. If you're a know-it-all you're probably going to get just as much dissent from the physiotherapy program than the paramedics.

I think the Degree is a good way to go but the Degree does not match the other health professions in practice. Nursing, physical therapy, dietetics, dentistry etc all have one "core" level; a nurse is a nurse is a nurse, a dentist is a dentist is a dentist yet in the ambulance service there are at least two, and sometimes up to three, four, or five different "levels" of provider. The Fire Service is the same, there is no "basic" or "advanced" firefighting; a different "level" of Firefighter is not required to put out a house fire or cut a person from a car, they are all the same, can do the same things. The higher levels of Firefighter are more about people and resource management than actual skill variation. If you are a basic level ambo you can't touch the IV kit or the intubation roll, the drug roll certainly not, yet the Fire Service doesn't say to a qualified firefighter "well you can't touch the jaws of life, you can't use the standpipes and you must call for backup to get somebody qualified to use the high pressure delivery!" yet in the ambulance service this is totally acceptable!

There is certainly a modal shift in the ambulance services around the world away from the current BLS/ALS/ILS levels to a "core" level with an extension or two above that. Australia is a good example, most states only have two levels, New Zealand will have two levels come 2012 but retain the BLS volunteer level as well (we just can't get rid of it that easy or it'd be gone if I had my say), the UK is moving towards all-Paramedic level ambulances and many American systems already operate at an all ALS level.

The Degree would be better aligned with a service model that (like all other health professions) has a basic "core" level which you get after a four year degree; in other words a totally ALS model where you don't have to go through two or three or five different levels. There could be sub-specialties like critical care transport or flight or neonatal transfer but there is no reason if we structure the program right that we need to tier the levels like we do at the moment, it's inconsistent with most other health professions.

ASNSW actually forces the minimum age for entry, thus encouraging the Uni degree by insisting on a truck licence. Current driving licence requirements mean that this forces the age to to around 22. The same age as someone completeing Uni.

I think the better service delivery model would be to take general entry, develop their skills & activley encourage & pay for the uni degree to be studied. This will not only be of benefit to each service, but will have determined who is suitable through 3 years of work history. I am all for weeding out the wheat from the chaff. It also teaches the value of that further education & maintains a desire to suceed.

[celticcare]

Stick to the AUT program, don't go to the other.

The process and transition to the ALS/ILS and BLS process is going ahead strongly from initial information recieved.

The BLS skill set, despite prior comment, is actually more than the "average" basic level that has perhaps been portrayed by other posters. BLS skill level is essential and with the higher level of skills coming out, BLS skills are not what is perhaps percieved as being a basic grunt.

And for someone who actually has done the RN degree here in New Zealand, yes some idiots apply, they soon leave in the first couple of months, and a nurse is more than a nurse, there are critical care nursing avenues, medical, surgical, primary care, nurse practitioners, nurse lecturers. A nurse is more than a nurse as a nurse has a chance to cross across to different facets of care and focus areas. A PHEC provider has a scope that is prehospital in a general scope.

Please also remember, we don't have the money like alot of other countries, so we have to have the BLS/ILS and ALS skill level to provide care in general. And there is encouragement for all to be higher than BLS, but please don't paint BLS as being a bunch of Morons with a bandage and some panadol.

Scotty

EMD/EMT/RN